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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 13, 2016 15:28:52 GMT
I think I read somewhere that the density of the atmosphere affects flight capabilities much more than gravity I don't doubt it, but I'm sure having a lighter gravity wouldn't hurt developing flight.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 13, 2016 15:27:17 GMT
The_Wayward_Admiral Pretty neat idea there, I'm also one of those who'd like to see machine species in later stages as well. Atrox: It's thewaywardadmiral* btw
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 13, 2016 14:36:46 GMT
I really like the skewers, perhaps on a gas giant that sort of thing could really take off (pun intended). Maybe if there were a creature which could use a powered system to tar off and then passively glide it could work on more massive planets. Having lighter gravity would also work too, less effort to get up in the air and all that.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 8, 2016 16:16:06 GMT
Looking good graveknight, very well written, very atmospheric.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 8, 2016 4:21:04 GMT
Assuming you have the proper research, would it be possible to create a land/sea vehicle that could break the sound barrier? Since we humans have already created jets that break it, shouldn`t it be possible to do this with other vehicle types.
In theory, I'd assume so once that particular point is reached. But getting something airborne to break the sound barrier is much easier than getting something on land or on the water to do so. So while perhaps a prestige project could be done, there might not be much practicality in making a supersonic land vehicle unit or a similarly speedy sub or battleship. It'd be cool, but also could be harder to make practical in terms of fuel costs.
Plus there's drag and atmospheric density modeling to consider, it's entirely possible for planets with different atmospheric densities to exist, so the speeds required to break the sound barrier can fluctuate. Definitely something for the programmers and coders to consider down the road though.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 8, 2016 1:14:33 GMT
This is great! It's really well written I'm glad to see this thread isn't done yet
Thanks, though it still seems fairly empty if I'm completely honest.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 7, 2016 4:42:13 GMT
This seems like a really interesting thread, many interesting and funny pieces here, I think I'll try my hand at it.
Hunger.
That was what he had known for a long time now, the past two lights at least. Already he felt weak from the hunger pangs, barely able to avoid drifting into one of the sharp-edged walls of the tunnels he and the rest of the colony called home. He refocused on maneuvering through the tunnels, looking for one of the large chambers, hoping for the scent of food. He continuously sent out echolocation, the only way of truly navigating the colony's tunnels without running into the walls and their sharp surfaces. He sensed an opening to his right, and with some extra force from his tail, he swam up and into it.
This tunnel was smaller, but it was also one he knew opened up into a bigger chamber that was connected to the Big Open, the massive expanse of open water none from the colony dared venture into very far nor for very long without darting frantically back to the tunnels. This was where the colony could find its food some lights.
A sudden burst of echoing chatter bounced around the tunnel, bringing him to a sudden stop as he interpreted the excited calls. It was the signal usually used to indicate food, but had the rest of the colony just resorted to devouring their own, or was there actual food?
He powered forward, swinging his stubby finned tail back and forth as he darted into the tunnel. The calls of food were getting closer and closer until finally a scent hit his nostrils...
Blood.
The enticing smell urged him onward, until he came to the exit of the tunnel, eagerly scanning with echolocation. What he got back was the shape of a huge thing, much like himself in shape in that it had a body, head, fins, and finned tail, but it could have easily swallowed him whole. Plus, there were small slightly protruding things on its head that he did not possess, darting as if looking around the chamber it had found itself in. It also had a very large mouth that it opened and closed slightly. It was this that was producing the blood smell, it must have injured itself on its way in, he could also smell the scent of fear, as prey that wandered into the colony's tunnels often did. The large thing's fins twitched as if it could tell it wasn't alone amongst tunnels. His own mouth opened and closed, sharp teeth at the ready, the muscles that would propel his barb-tipped tongue tensing.
Yet, as he sensed this new shape, he felt a measure of fear himself, some old instinct that had yet to fully die within himself unsettled by this thing's form. That may explain why the colony wasn't in a frenzy even as more and more arrived.
There it was, a sudden screech, and one of the colony surged towards the prey, followed by another, and another, until he himself joined the rush of bodies with his jaws spread wide and tongue at the ready.
His tongue launched out of his mouth with incredible speed, and he struck true, the long muscular appendage pulling him towards the prey even faster. His teeth clamped down on the prey's scaly hide, immediately setting to worrying the outside to get at the flesh and muscle beneath. Attached as he was, he could feel the vibrations of his fellows impacting the prey, which began to thrash in a vain attempt to dislodge its attackers. Blood filled his mouth as he broke through scales and into the food underneath. This urged him on even further even as some of the others started to dig into the prey. He gnawed and gnawed, until finally he had a hunk of the prey's body in his mouth. He raked his tongue across the ridges inside his mouth to break up the hunk of meat, then swallowed it. He felt his strength returning... he needed more... he resumed the frenzy with gusto.
Soon, the prey was nothing but a carcass floating within the chamber. Some of the colony members hadn't escaped without injury to themselves within the frenzy, the worst injured barely able to push themselves around...
They would join the prey as a meal for the stragglers. He himself would have some new scars, but with this fresh influx of food and the mating light approaching, the colony now had a much more certain future.
The species involved here is a species I'd come up with for a very niche sort of environment, submerged volcanic tubes. An old volcano that ended up submerged in water, and the channels in the rock remained open. These tunnels have walls that are very sharp, and the unwary or too large will likely end up killing themselves on them. This fish is about the same length as a human forearm, and has a powerful tail with stubby fins, has no eyes but powerful echolocation that allow them to navigate their tunnel home safely and efficiently. They don't know of a true day or night, instead the only thing to go by is when light shines down through certain exits or it doesn't. Specifically mentioned here is their mating light, which is a specific day like an equinox or solstice where the light shines at a specific time for a specific amount of time. This species also sports an extendable tongue with a harpoon-like barbed tip that is used to spear prey and drag the fish to it faster than they themselves can ever do. The prey shown here is actually an old predator of a previous generation of this species, and the instinct to run away hasn't completely left them.
All in all, gruesome as this might be, what does everyone else think?
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 5, 2016 14:01:59 GMT
And one of these approaches was to compare the color of the organism to the color of the surrounding environment when it came to being seen by another organism.
YesThat's why I've been trying (relatively unsuccessfully so far but I will come back to it) to generate a good spectrum for the light that makes it through the gasses in your atmosphere. Because we can use this spectrum to basically do what you are talking about when the time comes. Also there's hope we can have something like this, which can be worked out from the spectrum too, to mean the worlds actually look really unique and different and realistically so. Don't hold your breath though. We'll probably end up settling on having the game in black and white! True, but still, this stage is still some ways off so there's always the possibility. Plus it could be added in later when the core aspects are solidified.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 5, 2016 5:18:07 GMT
So, I know this was a topic back on the old forum, and I have looked and I haven't seen it brought back up here on the new forum. If it has been please do correct me and direct me to the proper thread.
Anyway, from what I remember, camouflage was a rather strongly wanted feature. And one of these approaches was to compare the color of the organism to the color of the surrounding environment when it came to being seen by another organism. Things such as size, movement, and overall stance would affect this chance too I think, since one's silhouette being similar or covered by any foliage or cover would be advantageous in avoiding being seen. Plus you aren't concealed if you're moving. XD So, depending on one's environment, camouflage could be achieved in different ways, whether it be covering oneself with dirt/sand (can be used underwater as well), staying still and hoping your colors keep you safe while your scent doesn't reveal your location, or mimicking the general shape of the foliage/cover yourself.
Yes this sort of overlaps with mimicry, which is another thing I want to push for for immersion's sake personally, but what are everyone else's thoughts on this?
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 20:17:52 GMT
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 19:02:51 GMT
Like underwater civilizations, floaty species might need to be uplifted. I'm all for gas giant organisms tjwhale I agree that by default a player should get a rocky planet to live on, but if they want, perhaps they could be given the option of living on a gas giant? They could even get a notification telling them that it would be nigh impossible to advance past the aware stage. That would be a good way to hash it out. It could entirely be possible to develop extremely large organisms in such an environment since there's nothing to hold a body or weight on, maybe large enough that some smaller organisms could make a living off of settling on its back? Essentially, they could support themselves on the larger organism's back, and could fill cleaner niches, or actually live on its back as an environment. An example could be organisms that scuttle along the back of the big organism, and may use organic nets that are hung up to catch food like filter feeders do. These could even be somewhat of parasites themselves, as they could feed off of the large organism.
Sorry about the tangent, just sharing an idea for how a more conventional society might develop, even if it might not get past bone/stone age technology like an underwater one.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 16:15:32 GMT
Welcome back! I was wondering where you'd disappeared to. Thanks, it was to another game development forum, but the community sort of degenerated into a state I don't like talking about (don't want the stress to come back). It may be getting better now, but I don't think I'm going back there ever again except on the rare and limited occasion.
Also, glad to see you're still here!
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 15:27:44 GMT
The issue with super size planets is not so much the microbe stage. As you say you can live by a thermal vent etc. It's even ok to have your planet frozen over so long as you have plenty of Hydrogen Sulfide bubbling up you can live there quite happily. However I was thinking more about which planets were eligible for the whole game. In order to go through the cities / industrial / space stage there are some relatively narrow requirements. I think the idea of life on gas giants is really cool. Here is a video of Carl Sagan talking about it. However if you started on a gas giant you couldn't really make a city or develop advanced technology etc. I guess maybe you could have some kind of floating world? But it's very difficult to imagine and very science fiction. It would also require a lot of programming. So that was why I picked that as an upper limit. It is quite arbitrary and I'd very happily go and change it if we had a good plan for what would happen on life on a larger planet. However I think, in general, the game should start you on a planet where there is at least a hope you could play the whole game. Playing for a while and finding your planet had a 0% chance of letting you make it through the game would be quite frustrating. If it had a 0.1% chance that could be really thrilling as a hardcore mode, trying to make a civilisation work somewhere which is super hostile.
That makes a lot of sense.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 14:15:03 GMT
I like the possibility of life on gas giants. It always bothered me that there is no interaction with gas giants within spore whatsoever. Even if you have the most sophisticated space ship, which can fly through wormholes. You cant go on gas giants... I was really sad when i read tjwhales dev-thread about planet generation. He said there he would limit the maximum size of starter-planets to the size where they begin to hold lighter gases like hydrogen and become gas giants. Due to the high pressure and no light within the gaslayers, if i remember it properly. This shouldnt be a problem since there are creatures on the bottom of Miriana Trench, which live also under very high pressure. & and the rest what is written above???
Oh, I didn't see that dev-thread. Still, this is an old idea of mine for a kind of radically different ecosystem, so I thought, "Why not a gas giant?" It's got no surface to speak of, but it is entirely possible that small enough microbial life could float on the currents. And since light wouldn't really get down into the lower levels of gas there'd be nothing like traditional plants, so what would take their place? Filter feeders that sift through the gasses for their food. Now, I did forget the possibility that a "predatory" species that manages to get into and stay in the higher gas levels with what autotrophs develop could start to feed on them instead of the filter feeders below, or make a hybrid diet of them both.
But it also affects how combat between organisms would work, as agents such as venoms and toxins wouldn't really work since an errant gas current could just blow it away in the case of sprayed agents, and all that would really be needed to bring prey down would be to rupture an air sac. Other organisms could evolve armored air sacs of course, but again there could be ways around that. So, while venomous organisms may develop, I don't think they'd be the norm unless there was mass evolution of armored air sacs to prevent rupture.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 13:45:12 GMT
Aquos and @stealthstyle_L Thanks for the warm welcome!
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 4:05:43 GMT
So, this is an old idea that I had back on the old forum. There it was part of the Miscellaneous Questions and Bugs thread. I tried to go back and find it but it seems to have disappeared. Oh well, I was recommended to try putting it here so I'll try and reconstruct the gist of it from memory.
(Please note, this is an idea/concept that would more than likely be done quite far down the line, after life of all kinds on more "conventional" planets are solidified and done.)
*clears throat*
Essentially, what we begin with is a gas giant, it's obviously got no surface to speak of, but different layers of gas. These gasses obviously have other particulates within them, some of them might just be organic.
What would start a journey of evolution on a gas giant would be either a sudden influx of new organic compounds (perhaps a chunk of a planet that used to have life on it?)striking the planet, or simple spontaneous changes, that prompts the existing organic compounds to start to bond together to make microbes that can float on certain compositions of gas. Enter the player.
A new game would start with a basic microbe, except you're floating amongst a layer of gas that can support you, and you will see other bits and bobs of other compounds that you can digest. As you get bigger though you sink further and further down into heavier gas layers. What is a solution to this?
Vacuoles filled with particles of lighter gasses of course. These allow you to float within a certain gas layer in the same way a hot air balloon or zeppelin uses warmer air/lighter gasses to ascend. These vacuoles could also be emptied for a burst of speed at the cost of maintaining altitude.
As microbes start to bond together, they start creating small net-like networks that share resources gathered amongst the gas, whether they be compounds to digest, or gas gathered in vacuoles. Eventually these start to become specialized, forming the first complex organisms.
An evolving ecosystem within a gas giant would likely become determined by what layer within the gas giant the organisms reside. Higher gas layers might actually become dominated by autotrophs who can get some access to the solar system's sun by climbing higher and higher amongst the layers of gas and photosynthesizing.
"Mid" layers of gas would likely be dominated by filter feeders, which could be stationary or mobile in a sort of active or passive role. Passive filter feeders would simply float along the currents of gas, using their evolved air sacs to stay at least somewhat level within their current area, and use the flows of gasses to float along. Active filter feeders however might move about and around different gas layers by using propulsion from modified air sacs that push out streams of gas, or on wings. The more active filter feeders (and other organisms that use this active method of travel) may be able to see their environment either by sense of smell (they can detect other organisms that are "up flow" of them), thermal sensing (detect another organism as it is likely warmer than the surrounding gas), or even sonar (the gas is a medium for sound to travel in).
It is in these layers that you'd also find predatory species, that likely feed on these filter feeders and use similar methods of propulsion to their prey.
Now, it is at lower levels of gas that it could get interesting. It's no doubt very dark here, but the heavy blankets of gas would also make it extremely warm. The pressures would also become immense no doubt. So, any organisms that develop here could likely be thermovores (or whatever the term would be when absorbing energy from heat sources). Granted, this could be supplemented with filter feeding, but it might also be viable at very low high density levels of gas.
Granted, this would be extremely unlikely (maybe impossible) to gain true sapience with, since there's nothing to really establish a civilization around. But there's nothing stopping social behaviors from forming amongst the clouds.
So, what's the consensus, does this sound like something that could be done down the road? Or does this just not seem fun without some tweaking?
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 3:12:00 GMT
Welcome to the new forums! I wasn't here for the old ones. I hope you like these ones. The new format will definitely take some getting used to, but I'm already liking how it looks so far.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 1:26:31 GMT
I suggest posting that in the "Fan Worlds" or "The Idea" sections Awesome, I'll go give those a look-see.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 1:18:19 GMT
Wow!! I remember you! I saw your posts on almost every thread I think and I absolutely love your picture it always stood out to me on the old forum Welcome back and enjoy!!
Aw, thanks, it's good to be back honestly. Just need to get all caught up again. Maybe I can find a place to re-post my gas giant life concept.
Also, good to see you too.
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Post by Immortal_Dragon on May 4, 2016 0:53:24 GMT
Hello again, sort of rediscovering this game and community again. For those of you who are unfamiliar, or maybe you are and I don't know, I was Immortal_Dragon back when the only forum was the development forum. The very old one that is now defunct. Anyway, I'm back, and I'll admit I'm quite surprised yet also very happy to see things are still going on even now. I, sort of got distracted by another game forum that, didn't end up going very well and I don't really want to talk about it.
I'll try and keep better track of what goes on here, not to mention do my part when it comes to testing the newest versions of the game.
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