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Post by Longisquama on Dec 12, 2015 14:51:48 GMT
The first interplanetary missions are also a good start for the space stage. I only feel interstellar travel would be better because it will make Industrial stage larger and more noticeable. Also, we now pretty much have the technology to go to other planets, but reaching another star is currently impossible. To me, reaching one in the game would felt like a larger achievement.
But, yeah, interplanetary missions are good starting point.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 12, 2015 13:56:53 GMT
I know all these things have been spoken a long time ago, but... I think the space stage should start after, with interstellar travel.
All the other stage transitions mark a big milestone in human evolution/development, as life would never be the same after it. Not only that, gameplay will probably change a lot between stages, and a big deal of the game is oriented towards reaching the next stage.
The first rockets didn't really change life as we know it. Transistors or the internet would mark bigger historical milestones, as they changed more the way we live. And they didn't really change much the overall duration of the industrial stage. In future developments, the technological singularity will be one that will change the most life as we know it, and it probably will be reach in this century.
But, if we want to maintain the space stage's name, and picking some milestone for it, interstellar travel is the best.
It will mark a big deal in life as we know it, as mankind will be able, for the first time to colonize billions of planets, increasing the species population exponentially, and with that probably technological development also. It will be the time in which mankind would be able for the first time to contact another sapient species.
Gameplay will also change a lot. Although the first change will be when you have to manage not only your planetary nation, but also your colonies in the solar system, interstellar travel changes radically the scope of the game, having to manage potentially billions of systems.( Do we have a way to manage that? I guess they are going to be pretty autonomous systems).
And, my personal favorite: Space stage is the last stage, and a considerable effort should be needed to reach it (well, technically ascension, but that pretty much finishes the game, so I will count it as a victory condition). In many people's mind, their goal will be to reach space stage, and if space stage starts only 200 in game years after industrial begins, with only investing a little technology in rocketry, they will be disappointed with both the industrial stage and the space stage, and will be found themselves will a goal too far away (ascension). Industrial stage should be longer, to be felt like a proper stage, and interstellar travel is a milestone more in the middle between steam power and ascension.
These are my thoughts on things, at least.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 12, 2015 10:30:22 GMT
For the stage duration I used the following dates as reference:
First eukaryotic cell, 2.5 billion years ago
First multicellular organism, 1 billion years ago
First complex animals, 550 million years ago
First tools, 2 million years ago
First cities, 8000 BC
First steam engine, 1750 AD
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 12, 2015 10:24:16 GMT
I imagined awakening starting with the creation of the first tools, so would be equivalent to Homo habilis, and awakening would last 2 million years. Australopithecines didn't show any sings of an incipient sapience. And, about time span, the game time will slow radically when you reach awakening, and almost with every stage transition. Except with aware and space, all stages last much less than their predecessor. I mean, for human evolution microbe would be from 2.5 billion years ago to 1 billion years ago (1.5 billion years) multicellular from 1 billion years ago to 550 million years ago (450 million years) aware from 550 million years ago to 2 million years ago ( 548 million years) awakening from 2 million years ago to 10000 years ago (2 million years) society from 10000 years ago to 250 years ago (9750 years), industrial from 250 years ago to an undefined future (but surely less than 1000 years, so still less than the previous stage). Space... who knows.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 12, 2015 4:10:42 GMT
I thought that awakening starts more or less with the first tools, so from homo habilis to the first cities. And there haven't been enough evolutionary changes to evolution to be implemented in those two million years.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 10, 2015 21:16:52 GMT
Diseases play a major role in history. Due to them, Europeans wiped out 90% of the native American population. And Europeans had more and worse diseases than native Americans because we lived closely with different kinds of domestic animals. It would be cool if thrive reflected all of this. Here is a video of CPG grey explaining all of this : www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEYh5WACqEk
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 10, 2015 0:49:17 GMT
I don't think it is realistic to have two sapient species evolve in the same planet. It is improbable that both of them developed sapience at the same time. To develop within a million years is at the same time, in evolutionary scale. Our civilization passed from hunter-gatherers to the beginning of a space-faring civilization in a hundredth of that. So, if the land dwelling species developed sapience first, it would become an intergalactic type IV civilization by the time the water species achieve it (which would be probably extinct anyway as probably the planet, and the entire system would have changed beyond recognition). If the water species first achieve it... well, it probably will take the same time to evolve a terrestrial life themselves as to a terrestrial species to achieve sapience. Anyway, I think Thrive will prevent all of this by slowing the pass of time once you get to awakening, and so stopping evolution in the planet altogether. Wait, why isn't it realistic to have more than one sapient species evolving on a planet? What reason would make that impossible/improbable? I would have also thought that because Thrive is focusing on realistic probabilities, I'd imagine that evolution wouldn't be entirely halted or even slowed on the planet as soon as (a) species reached the Awakening stage. Technological advancement is a hundred times faster than evolutionary advancement. Lets say awakening starts with the discovery of tools and ends with the first cities. To humans (including all the homo genus) it only took 2.5 million years. So, in all awakening, if we take us as reference, it will only pass 2.5 million years. That is enough for a few minor evolutionary changes (from homo habilis to us) but it is not enough to be worthy to continue simulating evolution, and to continue to allow you to evolve your species biologically. So, the most realistic move would be either to stop evolution or to make it really, really slow. And once one species reach sapience, no other species will be able to reach sapience. It is difficult enough to have one species reaching sapience. Two at the same time... ridiculously improbable. Unless, of course, that one of them is an underwater civilization where technological advancement can come to a halt for millions of years(although it would be a painfully long game to play) And with this , I make the entire post not-offtopic
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 9, 2015 12:46:51 GMT
Wait, sorry to jump back to October 13th, but the mantis shrimp CAN see all relevant wavelengths of light. They have more photo-receptors, witch allows them to see more colours. Those colours ARE infrared, radio, micro, visible light, and ultra-violet light. They are the super creatures for sight. They can see 'heat' and our phones probably glow radio waves to them. They can't see neither radio nor micro. They probably can't even see infrared. Although they can see polarized light, and have 16 different photoreceptors (5 only for different kinds of UV). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_shrimp#Eyes
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 9, 2015 12:39:21 GMT
I am not sure if it will be implemented, but is something which has been discussed. What is deemed as not possible is an underwater civilization reaching space by their own.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 9, 2015 12:35:09 GMT
All those stages suggested by you will be included inside aware stage, and don't worry, transitions are planned to be very gradual. Multicellular ends with you developing the first proto-brain, so you will start aware as something resembling a simple sea worm. Then you can gradually evolve things like senses, a skeleton, fins, and after a while evolving in the ocean, you will go to land (all those things only if you want. You can always choose to evolve to be the ultimate jellyfish). And in land, you can gradually evolve things like a better posture, an endothermic metabolism, grasper organs, and, in the end, an intelligent brain. In our evolution, everything from the cambrian to the pleistocene would be included in aware. And things like ice ages would be generated randomly, so perhaps you have a couple of them in early game, and then your planet turns into a greenhouse global rainforest.
So, no need for more stages. Although I would like starting the game as bacteria
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 9, 2015 1:36:16 GMT
I don't think it is realistic to have two sapient species evolve in the same planet. It is improbable that both of them developed sapience at the same time. To develop within a million years is at the same time, in evolutionary scale. Our civilization passed from hunter-gatherers to the beginning of a space-faring civilization in a hundredth of that. So, if the land dwelling species developed sapience first, it would become an intergalactic type IV civilization by the time the water species achieve it (which would be probably extinct anyway as probably the planet, and the entire system would have changed beyond recognition). If the water species first achieve it... well, it probably will take the same time to evolve a terrestrial life themselves as to a terrestrial species to achieve sapience.
Anyway, I think Thrive will prevent all of this by slowing the pass of time once you get to awakening, and so stopping evolution in the planet altogether.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 8, 2015 21:10:47 GMT
I think Sciodont is the oldest current member. And we don't see much of him lately. ~sciocont. You must always add the tilde. Ups. I will edit my post, then.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 8, 2015 9:47:10 GMT
I didn't know the english version... should had search for it.
Well, dolphins are not amphibians and are pretty intelligent. Of course, they breathe air and have land dwelling ancestors but they are still aquatic by all definitions.
And you are probably right in everything else.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 8, 2015 1:04:41 GMT
I think ~sciocont is the oldest current member. And we don't see much of him lately.
I, myself, found Thrive in 2013.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 8, 2015 0:39:28 GMT
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 8, 2015 0:34:46 GMT
Well, in risk of having my reputation throw through the window, and being kicked out of the forum....
Artificial selection is faster than natural selection. All the different races of dogs were developed in just ten thousand years, instead of the millions of years that natural selection usually takes. In russia, they made an experiment were they took wild foxes and started to breeding them, and in just three generations, the foxes behaviour mirrored that of dogs, and even had non-pointy ears, like those in some kinds of dogs. I know that is radically different to having bio-tv, but, you know... maybe, with enough time? Of course, better not to waste programming resources to this, but I'm curious to see if maybe some patient ingenious players would be able to obtain this with the same system that is used to domesticate and breed animals and plants for cattle raising and agriculture.
Speaking of which, perhaps some players could achieve more advancements without metal that we think. For example writing is also obtainable without metal, and, I think, so is the printing press. With the printing press, the scientific method could arise and flourish. Mills don't require metal neither, so perhaps there could be floating windmills, or special mills which take advantage of subaquatic currents. That could be a source of energy that could power, lets say, a textile factory. Perhaps even start an industrial revolution? Electricity is more difficult to handle underwater, as is almost always handled with metal, and you are always surrounded by a conductive liquid. But you could reach industrial stage with an awesomely weird civilization resembling the aztecs, but with mill powered factories and flourishing with scientists discovering the laws of mathematics, physics, chemistry and biology. Not bad.,,
... all that without extensive selective breeding or visiting the surface.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 8, 2015 0:01:08 GMT
Cool, although methane based lifeforms would still be carbon-based ones, as the methane replace the water( not the carbon) and is itself made of carbon and hydrogen.
About silicon-based lifeforms, I have heard that their metabolism would be really slow, even slower than the metabolism of plants.
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 7, 2015 1:20:31 GMT
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 6, 2015 20:54:21 GMT
I vote rowdy's plan
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Post by Longisquama on Dec 6, 2015 0:14:58 GMT
:-)
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