Simplicity

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. Does this mean that in terms of gameplay though (2d -> 3d -> rts -> rts in space) there are only four planned stages?



Wait Spore had research!? TBH though, I didn't really say it earlier, but when I said 4 different upgrade types, I meant 4 different upgrade trees (not including the physical section where the creature creator is located) all with their own specific theme. Something similar to what Skyrim did with their various skill trees. Some could be upgraded a limited number of times, some added new abilities, but it wouldn't be something as simple as "click on a tab over and over to upgrade it".




I see what you're saying, but I'd direct your attention to Oxygen Not included. It's a game where you control some people to make them survive. The game has detailed simulations of fluid mechanics, heat dispersion, metabolic rates, gas density, energy consumption and much more (in the constraints of a 2D environment ofc). But the game doesn't throw it in your face. If you want to, you can look at the numbers to see how much Co2 is being generated/o2 is consumed by Bob as he runs to generate 2W of power, but some people won't even notice, only seeing that "bob creates Co2 when breathing".

In the same way the Oxygen Not Included has many different complex systems going on in the background, an upgrade-based organ system would allow users to easily change what's going on in their cell without actually making things worse. Right now, you can create cells that consume too much ATP when they move, you can become unable to reproduce when you add too many organs without enough vacuoles. With a tree structure, this can be pre-checked and prevented. Upgrade requirements could prevent this from happening, ensuring that game play is smooth and fun while also remaining scientifically accurate.

But there's also the problem of complexity. The Cell is relatively simple* as a life form. When you reach the multi cellular stage, you'll be making small organs out of individual cells, you'll be trapping bacteria to digest nutrients, you'll be dealing with intracellular communication, and in the creature stage, having to replace every organ every time you get larger sounds a bit tedious. Larger heart, stronger lungs, bigger stomach, fat storage areas. 3D modeling may seem fun in minecraft, but trying to fit a 30ft long intestine in the satanic minion you've created might not be as much. In addition, having to make calculations about how well organs can support each other and finally having to trial and error whether the creature you create will die immediately after being born sounds like it might get a bit dull after a couple of iterations. In a way it also might limit creativity since most people have only really learned about vertebrae, and those all came from the same ancestor, so structurally they're pretty much the same inside and out and we know it works.

Finally though, where you place organs doesn't really effect game play. If a cell's membrane breaks, it dies regardless of where the organs are. In the creature stage, the idea of monitoring specific hit locations for organ damage sounds both difficult (in terms of programming) and also doesn't contribute much since if something breaks organ-wise, the animal usually dies anyway.

In short, organs add a lot of complexity, if not now, then later. An upgrade system allows you to make direct upgrades to your cell/creature indirectly through organs, which can show after the upgrade is applied. I think it's a nice middle ground between spore's creature editor (where you couldn't touch organs) and requiring a degree in biology (if you were to reach the creature stage). It's also easier to implement programmatically since adding organs goes from adding organ defs (which might have a shape, as well as other requirements) for every option to changing the picture for the "mitochondria section" in the cell and modifying a variable (for the equation that deals with hunger). In the creature stage you wouldn't even have to have visual feedback since it's all under skin.


In the worst case though, starting with a simple game means that you can add complexity later.


*compared to others

I wouldn't call those different points of view (camera angles?) different stages as the planned transitions will be smooth. Like from 2d to 3d the camera will basically just tilt to the side and lower so that it is behind your creature, in a smooth motion. That way the player can certainly notice but it won't be like in spore where a cutscene is used to do the transition and it is a large leap. Basically the stages are just so that we can more easily categorize things as belonging to the different parts of the game.




I've discussed a possible zeroth stage, abiogenesis, where you basically start as a strand of rna and can start getting adjusted to the different mechanics one by one. The problem is that that will probably be quite boring so we want to keep that optional (if we ever get around to making it) so the cell stage should be the default starting stage.



That's a GUI issue, because there currently aren't tool tips or a summary of how your cell will fare against other species.



How I picture the organ editing in my head is basically doing sculpting. You select the type of organ you want to place and then use a paint brush to paint it on or to increase the size. This, too, will benefit from real time updating statistics telling you if your design works.


We will probably start with quite accurate models and then add even more complexity. With good tutorials and tool tips that should be doable, and from my experience most fans want very accurate science in the game. But if something is just way too boring or tedious it will probably have a button to automate it.

I don't think that cell size is actually important. Caulerpa taxifolia is a single celled organism that grows to about 12 inches (30cm). Where as there are cells on our body that are much much smaller than that. I think that after (x) amount of upgrades in the cell stage we gain an option to "replicate a cell" instead of building upon a cell.

Another option we could have is to "start a blank cell". We can build upon that cell and "save" it for later use.

I think that in the multicellural stage should be 2D. Anything past multicellular stage should be 3D.

I was speaking of the transition between Multicellular and Aware not Microbe and Multicellular.
From what I've heard it's mostly been agreed the separation between those two stages will be based on how large your colony is. My question is how large and how will largeness be determined.

What would be the point of multi-cellular being 3d? My greatest concern (besides the concern I just mentioned above) is multi-cellular creating a misshapen blob that must be edited heavily to function in aware stage. From what I understand of the current plan for multicellular stage I feel would be disasterous in this way if it were 3D.

If it's done well 2d is fine....if it isn't done well I'm not sure adding a dimension would be much better.
Is there a mechanism your hoping for that would work in a 3d environment?
I'm actually looking forward to Aware stage for a similar reason but there has been much discussion on aspects of aware stage on thing like organs, combat, and possibly even mating that makes 3d not only worthwhile but vital to the mechanics of that stage.