The only way to develop an underwater civilization

K

I don't think it is realistic to have two sapient species evolve in the same planet. It is improbable that both of them developed sapience at the same time. To develop within a million years is at the same time, in evolutionary scale. Our civilization passed from hunter-gatherers to the beginning of a space-faring civilization in a hundredth of that. So, if the land dwelling species developed sapience first, it would become an intergalactic type IV civilization by the time the water species achieve it (which would be probably extinct anyway as probably the planet, and the entire system would have changed beyond recognition). If the water species first achieve it... well, it probably will take the same time to evolve a terrestrial life themselves as to a terrestrial species to achieve sapience.

Anyway, I think Thrive will prevent all of this by slowing the pass of time once you get to awakening, and so stopping evolution in the planet altogether.

And we're against uplifting?

To be honest, the average player will see this game as something like a free Spore thing. If we can quickly, in only a few words, that people still need to understand (the average person), so instead of going on about technical things and science you could just say: So, filling in a few gaps other games have left, we have the ability for an underwater civilisation!

Even if you miss out the... less attractive things that come along with this.

So yeah, we should keep on thinking about this and attempting to implement in any almost any way possible.

I completely understand, all I was saying is that if something is possible (which underwater civs would be, with some outside influence) and it makes gameplay and marketing the game, even though it's free it is still good to get some players, then there isn't much reason not to.
Unless, that is, if Thrive's programmers don't have the ability with what they have and can't implement a cross species trade system / random alien encounters.

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Also, with alien encounters, what are the thoughts? Possible? Impossible?
I mean, personally, I think they're unlikely but still may happen to some species somewhere.

The_Wayward_Admiral hit the nail on the head. This started as an attempt to make Spore 2, but as the team renewed itself and concepts were analysed, it's gradually moved further away from this goal. We're not going for insanely over-the-top scientific realism either - there was a proposal at one point that the player should make their own elements and play as them before reaching the Microbe Stage, and that among others kind of highlighted how far up their own scientifically-focused backsides the team was. Not to diminish their contributions of course, we wouldn't be here without them, but a lot of the early days were spent figuring out what exactly this game was and not all of it was helpful. In the end we've gone for somewhere in between Spore's childishness and a full-blown simulator, combining realism and gamey-ness in a ratio we hope succeeds.

As for the ongoing discussion, uplifting has been on the cards since the start of this idea, and it'll probably be included. So yes, you can become an underwater civilisation providing someone else gives you the technology. Coming out of the water to smelt metal or whatever could also make you highly civilised, but that's called being amphibious (you could still build structures underwater though, if you could transport everything properly). The unsolvable problem is to find a way to smelt metal underwater, without outside influence or land-based activities. If you can think of a loophole here, I guarantee you someone did long ago and it was quickly refuted in this thread. Tying back to gameplay versus realism, even if technically it is scientifically possible, it's going to require quite an intricate strategy, on far too small a scale for us to consider if we wanted the game to actually be fun. It could be abstracted for macro-mechanics, but I wouldn't count on it.

But still, we've had so many people in the past decide they've solved the issue and should get an award for it that it's futile to try and stop it. On the old forum, even when 90% of it was cordoned off to non-developers, the 10% that wasn't still suffered with this sort of thing. Hence why we set this forum up, to let people go crazy with their own ideas away from development. As long as you don't expect us to take your ideas seriously (because, being frank here, some of the game ideas discussed elsewhere on this forum are definitely not going to happen in a million years), you're free to speculate as you please.

And anyway, at the end of all this, someone's going to mod underwater civs in regardless.

EDIT: I found the moment we almost fizzled out of existence, and it touches on pretty much the same themes. Ah, memories. Thankfully I think I'm safe in saying the way we've done things has changed considerably since then.

Most people think that since our species being sentient, or more relevant, rising to a sort of 'dominant' state, then having 2 completely different species at this stage would be unlikely. I mean (without a history lesson), look at the Neanderthals, when they were around we were both very identical species but one still prevailed.

Although, no, it would not be impossible and would be very interesting.

Guys, if your going to discuss this, can you make a new thread please? This is going quite off-topic. Thanks!