crabghast
Sentient
POSADAS👽 WAS ☢ RIGHT 🚀
Posts: 68
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Post by crabghast on Apr 20, 2017 17:17:57 GMT
Health points are a staple of bideo-gammes since their very inception and have been omnipresent in almost every game where you can die, with the exception of some either experimental systems or...
Actual damage simulation
Since HP is a rather unrealistic trope, how feasible is it to implement actual physical modeling of damage? I think this would greatly improve the games realism (and maybe even fun) although I assume it is extremely complex to implement.
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Post by Captain McDerp on Apr 20, 2017 18:10:27 GMT
"Your placeholder system is not realistic. Please replace with physics based damage model."
Good one Galileo.
But seriously, this idea has kinda been around since forever and it's a good idea too. Something similar will probably be implemented soonish™.
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crabghast
Sentient
POSADAS👽 WAS ☢ RIGHT 🚀
Posts: 68
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Post by crabghast on Apr 21, 2017 9:05:01 GMT
"Your placeholder system is not realistic. Please replace with physics based damage model."Good one Galileo. But seriously, this idea has kinda been around since forever and it's a good idea too. Something similar will probably be implemented soonish™. Yeah, I know it's been suggested a lot but I was mostly asking about how feasible it even is.
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Post by tjwhale on Apr 21, 2017 10:27:12 GMT
One step that's not so hard to make when it comes to HP is to have multiple bars. So quite a lot of games (for example Fallout) have different HP bars for each arm and leg, the torso and head. Also if the creature is an ant or something they have other parts with other HP bars.
This is kind of a good system because it opens up more complex hunting strategies (injuring legs so your prey can't escape, for example).
I do think, however, that it's important to be careful when implementing health systems that they actually end up fun. For example in Fallout I ended up shooting for the head ~90% of the time which meant it wasn't hugely different from just having one health bar.
I, personally, think it's got to be rooted in compelling gameplay.
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Post by Omicron on Apr 21, 2017 12:10:55 GMT
Well, this will probably be really hard to implement properly for different creatures, but you guys/they/we/etc. could look at the health system in Rimworld: Everyone gets a couple "stats", such as movement, manipulation, blood filtration, breathing, etc., and each body-part and organ (From kidneys to fingers (Yes, fingers)) effects on or more of those stats and has their own "health bar"(For example, the heart affects blood filtration and the arms manipulation) (Also, some stats affect other stats, such as breathing affecting movement, as the colonist will have less oxygen and thus, less energy) , and if anything damages it, be it a bullet, a knife, or even a disease, it goes down a bit, taking the stat it affects with it. If it reaches 0, it will be destroyed. This means the colonist can't use that part anymore, and the stat(s) that body-part affects goes to 0. For example, if you cut a colonist in the finger (But not cutting the whole thing off), manipulation will go down by about 1 or 2 percent, but if you shoot of a whole arm, it goes down by 50%. This also allows for diseases to be pretty easy to make, as it will only have to give a debuff to a certain bodypart and/or stat. (I.E., asthma gives damage to the lungs, and affects breathing). The last thing the game would have to do is to monitor "important" stats, such as blood filtration, breathing, metabolism, etc. and "kill" the colonist when one of those run out (Or, of course, if the brain is destroyed).
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Post by tjwhale on Apr 21, 2017 13:24:49 GMT
Yeah the Rimworld system is excellent. I suppose it ties in with a lot of other metrics for your creature (like blood oxygen and energy reserves etc).
I guess if a creature is built modularly then each module could affect things. But then of course that reduces freedom to make what you like. When is an appendage a limb rather than a bulge? When is an organ a lung rather than a swim bladder? When is a muscle a heart? etc
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 13:34:21 GMT
Yeah the Rimworld system is excellent. I suppose it ties in with a lot of other metrics for your creature (like blood oxygen and energy reserves etc). I guess if a creature is built modularly then each module could affect things. But then of course that reduces freedom to make what you like. When is an appendage a limb rather than a bulge? When is an organ a lung rather than a swim bladder? When is a muscle a heart? etc An appendage would become a limb when it has a functional purpose. A lung would force oxygen into the lungs via osmosis/diffusion. A muscle would be a heart when it has a continuous stream of blood moving through it, and the muscle moves in a pump-like motion. Edit- Lungs force oxygen into blood, not lungs.
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Post by tjwhale on Apr 21, 2017 16:07:37 GMT
Yeah the Rimworld system is excellent. I suppose it ties in with a lot of other metrics for your creature (like blood oxygen and energy reserves etc). I guess if a creature is built modularly then each module could affect things. But then of course that reduces freedom to make what you like. When is an appendage a limb rather than a bulge? When is an organ a lung rather than a swim bladder? When is a muscle a heart? etc An appendage would become a limb when it has a functional purpose. A lung would force oxygen into the lungs via osmosis/diffusion. A muscle would be a heart when it has a continuous stream of blood moving through it, and the muscle moves in a pump-like motion. Yes but how would you detect these things? For example take a fin on a fish. If it is very large then it is obviously a fin and a separate part of the fish. What if it is 1 cm smaller? What if it is 1 cm smaller than that? At what exact point is it no longer a fin and just part of the body? It's the same problem with a heap of rice. Take one grain of rice away, is it still a heap? Take one grain of rice away, is it still a heap? Surely 1 grain of rice on it's own isn't a heap so what is the exact amount of rice it takes to make a heap?
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Post by serialkiller🌴 on Apr 21, 2017 17:06:55 GMT
As much as I enjoy this discussion ,but how are these things relevant in the microbe stage ? Shouldn't the thread be moved to aware ?
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crabghast
Sentient
POSADAS👽 WAS ☢ RIGHT 🚀
Posts: 68
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Post by crabghast on Apr 21, 2017 18:56:44 GMT
As much as I enjoy this discussion ,but how are these things relevant in the microbe stage ? Shouldn't the thread be moved to aware ? They kind of are. Microbes can still be modeled with physical damage or, as seems to be the most popular and feasible variant right now part-based damage.
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Post by Omicron on Apr 21, 2017 19:47:57 GMT
As much as I enjoy this discussion ,but how are these things relevant in the microbe stage ? Shouldn't the thread be moved to aware ? I think just "future game" will be best
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 23:35:24 GMT
An appendage would become a limb when it has a functional purpose. A lung would force oxygen into the lungs via osmosis/diffusion. A muscle would be a heart when it has a continuous stream of blood moving through it, and the muscle moves in a pump-like motion. Yes but how would you detect these things? For example take a fin on a fish. If it is very large then it is obviously a fin and a separate part of the fish. What if it is 1 cm smaller? What if it is 1 cm smaller than that? At what exact point is it no longer a fin and just part of the body? It's the same problem with a heap of rice. Take one grain of rice away, is it still a heap? Take one grain of rice away, is it still a heap? Surely 1 grain of rice on it's own isn't a heap so what is the exact amount of rice it takes to make a heap? Well, a fin would have to move forcefully through the water, so as long as there's a muscle moving it, it's a fin. It shouldn't matter to a certain point, e.g it's too small to physically move the creature, in terms of the fin's size in proportion to the creature. For the heap, I looked at www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heap and it said; a large, disordered pile of things: a great number or large amount of something: an old car that is in poor condition.Now, obviously, we don't need the car definition. As for the other two definitions, a heap would be a disorganised pile of at least 100-200+ grains of rice, to make it considered "large". (I'm a bit conflicted on the amount of rice.)
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Post by crodnu on Apr 22, 2017 0:03:15 GMT
In the current game the health of the microbe is the sum of the health of all its organelles, maybe their efficiency could be determined by it. In the later stages it depends on how do we represent organs, ship parts and such (does the player make them or are they presets?).
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Post by Omicron on May 14, 2017 6:19:08 GMT
In the current game the health of the microbe is the sum of the health of all its organelles, maybe their efficiency could be determined by it. In the later stages it depends on how do we represent organs, ship parts and such (does the player make them or are they presets?). Wasn't the plan to kind of have both? (You know, you can add presets, but you can also design stuff yourselves)
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gabriel0829
Multicellular
This whole Thrive thing seems pretty legit! Happy to give feedback!
Posts: 14
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Post by gabriel0829 on Jun 2, 2017 17:48:00 GMT
I like the idea of stats. After all, in real life it TECHNICALLY isn't you getting stabbed in the heart that kills you, it's the lack of blood flow, starving the cells of oxygen and the like, causing the failure of vital functions, causing death.
P.S. I don't really know of a better place to post this, but regarding death due to lack of ATP, can the death be immediate, at least until a different health system is put in place? It's kind of annoying having to wait for my cell to die while I do nothing :/
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Post by BiologicalSomething on Jun 2, 2017 17:57:43 GMT
I like the idea of stats. After all, in real life it TECHNICALLY isn't you getting stabbed in the heart that kills you, it's the lack of blood flow, starving the cells of oxygen and the like, causing the failure of vital functions, causing death. P.S. I don't really know of a better place to post this, but regarding death due to lack of ATP, can the death be immediate, at least until a different health system is put in place? It's kind of annoying having to wait for my cell to die while I do nothing :/ That P.S question would go under Future game-Microbe.
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gabriel0829
Multicellular
This whole Thrive thing seems pretty legit! Happy to give feedback!
Posts: 14
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Post by gabriel0829 on Jun 2, 2017 18:15:23 GMT
I like the idea of stats. After all, in real life it TECHNICALLY isn't you getting stabbed in the heart that kills you, it's the lack of blood flow, starving the cells of oxygen and the like, causing the failure of vital functions, causing death. P.S. I don't really know of a better place to post this, but regarding death due to lack of ATP, can the death be immediate, at least until a different health system is put in place? It's kind of annoying having to wait for my cell to die while I do nothing :/ That P.S question would go under Future game-Microbe. Thank you!
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