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Post by TheCreator on Feb 14, 2017 11:31:49 GMT
Crashed a couple of seconds after the tutorial/cell editor Can't find a crash log anywhere. Looks like a lot of people have that bug, I'll look into it. I agree. The GUI was designed on a large monitor display, so it looks best on 1920 by 1080 and everything looks to big in windowed mode. I'll talk to Oliveriver and hopefully we can get the size of the GUI to scale with window size. Oxytoxy is just a temporary agent. Check out this page for more information on how agents will work in the future. This. I've tested the reproduction stage for so long that it takes me <5 minutes to reproduce, so it's hard for me to gauge difficulty. However, the main reason why its so hard is that the process system doesn't work as its supposed to, which makes it hard to create compounds such as amino acids that are necessary for reproduction. This will likely be fixed in the next release.
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Post by elementalred on Feb 14, 2017 16:37:56 GMT
I played the game 3 times and it crashed. The first time, it crashed on the second panel of the tutorial and the second and third time it was after I moved my microbe in the tutorial
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Post by Mouthwash on Feb 14, 2017 23:50:28 GMT
Thoughts/complaints:
1. The health bar looked awful to my eyes when I first saw it, but I have to admit that it works very well when actually playing the game. I don't have any trouble focusing on it (at least outside of the darker environments; it does need to be made lighter).
2. Organelle division is a completely unneeded and unwelcome mechanic. It totally ruins the point of designing your own cell, and it isn't even realistic since AFAIK protists don't spend most of their lives undergoing binary fission (much less swimming around and dodging predators). Why not just have the player collect a certain amount of compounds and then begin the process (i.e. fade to the editor)?
3. I have encountered CTDs both with and without admin privileges. However, they are much less frequent with privileges enabled, so I assume there is a separate cause for them.
4. The oxytoxy bar seems pointless since toxins can be generated directly from oxygen.
5. Toxins are generated much too far away from the cells and don't have any correlation to where their toxin vacuoles are actually located. This makes evading danger much more frustrating and arbitrary. 'Surprise toxin in the face' really isn't all that fun.
6. Engulfing appears to have been removed from the game, so why not remove it from the instructions as well?
7. The GUI does not hold up well. The list of bars is extremely intrusive and the numbers are placed too far to the right of the screen, making them hard to see at a glance. You see that ATP measure beside the health bar? That's where they all should be, and color-coded as well.
8. The absolute worst issue with the game is that there is zero transparency. I can't tell what anything does anymore. Most of the time my ATP is caught at a certain threshold, but oxygen, glucose and ammonia don't seem to go down when I swim. What causes health to regenerate? What do organelles DO? What causes you to divide (it certainly isn't what the tutorial claims)? Here are the three main issues:
(A) Health only appears to go up when I collect either ammonia or glucose, regardless of how much I already have of those. It doesn't do so consistently- it's either one or the other, and nothing tells me what circumstances change this. However, occasionally my health shoots back up the instant I get damaged, presumably using a stored compound. Why not just make health go up according to a fixed rate of conversion?
(B) Most of the time my ATP is caught in the early teens, flipping back and forth between two numbers. I originally assumed that glucose was being converted to ATP only when a certain threshold was met and so that canceled out the consumption, but this is not true. I've looked at my compounds and none of them change in the slightest while this is happening. The only thing that lets me accumulate ATP is reaching a certain amount of mitochondria or vacuoles (don't know which) and then I can easily get into the hundreds and never fear starvation again. How can this possibly be deliberately coded in? The only sensible thing to do, like health, is to convert glucose to ATP at a fixed rate according to how many mitochondria you have.
(C) Cell division does seem correlated with glucose and ammonia, but it only seems to happen when I actually collect those compounds and doesn't care about what I already have. Also, I can see that organelles grow larger before dividing, but what does it mean when the nucleus grows?
Conclusion: This is a very bad release. I don't understand the team's claims of being ready for more outreach. Whatever improvements there are in 3.3, the gameplay itself has regressed substantially and is certainly not presentable to a critical audience. The most frustrating thing here is that most of these problems are easily fixable and sometimes (in the case of the GUI) required more work to have reached this state than they would have to be done properly.
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Post by Longisquama on Feb 15, 2017 1:12:07 GMT
Well, your language is quite harsh, Mouthwash, but I have to agree with many of your points. However, I welcome organelle division. Even though protozoa aren't all time undergoing binary fission, when they do organelles divide, and as reproduction is your main goal in the phase, I would say it would be boring to be doing other things as a player. But it is true that microbes are not in a constant chemical warfare state. And that the direction of toxin release is too random (but I know it will be remove altogether soon,replaced by agents, so maybe there wont be the same problems with them):
It is true that the new gui has too much information, and that is quite intrusive. To put only the compounds that you have control over, or the most important ones (just atp, oxygen, glucose and ammonia), and to put them just with numbers in the upper bar, as atp (as suggested by Mouthwash), would be a nice solution. However, the new gui is a huge step forward from the old one ( it was just a lot of plain text in ugly, intrusive boxes).
All in all, I would say this is a great release of Thrive, as is an improvement in all areas, but it is true it has some issues to be adressed in future releases.
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Post by Mouthwash on Feb 15, 2017 1:31:33 GMT
Well, your language is quite harsh, Mouthwash, but I have to agree with many of your points. However, I welcome organelle division. Even though protozoa aren't all time undergoing binary fission, when they do organelles divide, and as reproduction is your main goal in the phase, I would say it would be boring to be doing other things as a player. I suppose it depends on how heavily the customization aspect is emphasized in microbe stage. If it's just a prelude game to set you up on the planet than I'll concede cell division doesn't matter that much... but I still think it goes against the most basic element of gameplay: that you design your own creature.
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TheGraveKnight
Spacefaring
The Motivational Army is watching
Posts: 1,170
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Post by TheGraveKnight on Feb 15, 2017 2:01:13 GMT
Well, your language is quite harsh, Mouthwash, but I have to agree with many of your points. However, I welcome organelle division. Even though protozoa aren't all time undergoing binary fission, when they do organelles divide, and as reproduction is your main goal in the phase, I would say it would be boring to be doing other things as a player. I suppose it depends on how heavily the customization aspect is emphasized in microbe stage. If it's just a prelude game to set you up on the planet than I'll concede cell division doesn't matter that much... but I still think it goes against the most basic element of gameplay: that you design your own creature. So all and all it's ok, but needs to touching on? My only personal gripe with Thrive so far is the movement which feels rather clunky, I would hope that you could click and hold the mouse to have your microbe move. As for customization, I think that might just be due to the fact that there aren't many organelles in the game right now. *shrugs* But then again I don't know much about game development.
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Post by crodnu on Feb 15, 2017 2:26:43 GMT
Engulfment is still a thing, it's just that the cell doesn't change colours anymore due to graphical glitches.
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Post by Mouthwash on Feb 15, 2017 3:14:46 GMT
Engulfment is still a thing, it's just that the cell doesn't change colours anymore due to graphical glitches. I don't know if pressing G one time puts you in 'engulfing mode' or whether you have to keep it pressed but neither one works for me. Do you have to be substantially bigger than your prey for it to work?
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Post by crodnu on Feb 15, 2017 5:23:52 GMT
You just press it to enter engulfing mode. You should experience some speed decrease in that mode. You do need to be bigger than other cells to eat them, and they can try to eat you if they're bigger than you.
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Post by Mouthwash on Feb 15, 2017 6:07:16 GMT
You just press it to enter engulfing mode. You should experience some speed decrease in that mode. You do need to be bigger than other cells to eat them, and they can try to eat you if they're bigger than you. I used cytoplasm to get as big as possible and it worked. Personally, I think some notification on the screen rather than a graphical change on the cell itself would work better.
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Post by Mouthwash on Feb 18, 2017 6:22:06 GMT
Three more issues:
1. Are the compound quantities rounded from more precise numbers? When a player sees their cell absorbing oxygen, no matter how little, he should expect his oxygen level to rise.
2. Amino acids play zero role in the game right now, and I've never seen the AA bar rise at all. Even if there will eventually be a good reason for them, they needn't have been included in this release.
3. The ingame music is way too soft compared to the menu's.
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phantomhunter01
Sentient
something something hiveswap filmcow reddit?
Posts: 53
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Post by phantomhunter01 on Feb 18, 2017 7:58:07 GMT
I suppose it depends on how heavily the customization aspect is emphasized in microbe stage. If it's just a prelude game to set you up on the planet than I'll concede cell division doesn't matter that much... but I still think it goes against the most basic element of gameplay: that you design your own creature. Well, I think the microbe stage is supposed to be both. It isn't exactly the bulk of the game, but it's also supposed to be a fun and interesting stage that could be a separate game on it's own. As for the organelle splitting issue, I actually kind of agree. It would be nice for the amino acids bar to fill up as you made more and more as you gathered compounds, then once you got to the limit your organelles started dividing.
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Post by thundercraft on Apr 5, 2017 16:43:15 GMT
...I cannot reproduce once for the life of me. It understand how you're supposed to do it but I can never get my microbe to produce Amino Acids. Are you supposed to be at full health, because if that's the case then the overabundance of Toxin Vacuole microbes don't help. This leads into my other honest problem, the movement. It feels rather clunky and turning is very sluggish, making avoiding damage sometimes impossible. I'm having the same problems. I can not reproduce, no matter how long I play. And there's just so, so many aggressive microbes with toxin vacuoles - such a huge abundance of them - that I can't help but die after a while. They're impossible to completely avoid, especially since I can't reproduce to mutate and give my microbe more maneuverability. I have to agree with TheGraveKnight the games cells have to many toxin vacuoles and your never at full health. An issue I've had is that the amount of glucose spawning is way to low. I want to stress that I still love Thrive and hope it continues to grow but I had to say my opinion. Myself, I sometimes find it difficult to find enough glucose. Other times, I'm not finding enough oxygen. Still other times, I can't find enough ammonia. Even when I find a cloud of stuff, half the time it seems like my microbe can't absorb any of it, or it only absorbs at half the rate it's supposed to. In any case, my microbe burns through ATP way, way too fast. A new cell starts with like 50. But, in a matter of seconds, my microbe is nearly empty! Because dangerous microbes with toxin vacuoles are so prolific, I have to swim away constantly, so that does not help. And even when I find a good cloud of oxygen or something, it rapidly dissipates if my microbe doesn't gulp it up fast. Finding more resources also means swimming around a lot, which burns through ATP. Also, because microbes with toxin vacuoles are so prolific, my cell takes some damage. And cell repair also burns through ATP like nobody's business... In short: It feels like the game is stuck in "Hard Core" or "Expert" difficulty. Also, looking at the Thrive 0.3.2 Official Gameplay video, I find myself confused and jealous. Confused, because it looks like a very different game. I mean, whatever happened to the REPRODUCTASE in the resource bar?! The lack of such makes it difficult for players to know at a glance how close their microbe is to being able to reproduce. I'm jealous because he made the game look easy. Like, enjoyable, even. I'm tempted to download version 0.3.2 and give that a chance. However, I feel like I've already given Thrive a fair chance. And it does look like it has tremendous potential. However, I think I'll uninstall and check back in a year or so, to see what's changed.
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