|
Post by Longisquama on Sept 21, 2016 22:35:41 GMT
Are there pilus in Eukaryotes in real life? Because if there are not, maybe we shouldnt add them to the game, as it tries to remain scientific. I ask this because I have only heard of them in bacteria.
|
|
|
Post by tjwhale on Sept 22, 2016 15:30:40 GMT
1. I think we need to make sure that the microbe stage is fun and I, personally, think having no melee organelles is going to make that a challenge, though I'm open to being convinced. 2. When people talk about eukaryotes they are usually talking about animal cells which make up a larger body (and therefore do not really need things outside the cell wall) however protists, which are single celled eukaryotes, have more of these structures. For example this wikipedia page says "Ciliophora, or ciliates, are a group of protists that utilize cilia for locomotion. Examples include Paramecia, Stentors, and Vorticella. Ciliates are widely abundant in almost all environments where water can be found, and the cilia beat rhythmically in order to propel the organism. Many ciliates have trichocysts, which are spear-like organelles that can be discharged to catch prey, anchor themselves, or for defense." and it links to this page.
So it seems that it's not unreasonable.
|
|
|
Post by untrustedlife on Sept 23, 2016 21:56:58 GMT
This is actually the subject of a discussion on the dev forum right now.
|
|
|
Post by Longisquama on Sept 26, 2016 0:09:57 GMT
For example this wikipedia page says "Ciliophora, or ciliates, are a group of protists that utilize cilia for locomotion. Examples include Paramecia, Stentors, and Vorticella. Ciliates are widely abundant in almost all environments where water can be found, and the cilia beat rhythmically in order to propel the organism. Many ciliates have trichocysts, which are spear-like organelles that can be discharged to catch prey, anchor themselves, or for defense." and it links to this page.
So it seems that it's not unreasonable. I did not know that. But, in that case, I would name them trichocysts, to remain as scientific as possible. And in wikipedia there is no reference at all of pilus in eukaryotes, so I would replaced the proposed types (sex, stab, grapple, injection, straw) for real organelles in real life eukaryotes, such as trichocysts, micronemes, rhoptry or micronuclei.
|
|
|
Post by tjwhale on Sept 26, 2016 8:55:24 GMT
I see what you mean, I agree with you to a degree. The problem with trying to make everything scientifically accurate as possible is that it becomes out of reach. The game is already bewilderingly full of new words to learn.
|
|
|
Post by Longisquama on Sept 26, 2016 9:46:04 GMT
That is true, although I think it is worthy, as it contributes to people learning more about science.
|
|
Vultblooop
Multicellular
Ree, normies out please.
Posts: 36
|
Post by Vultblooop on Sept 26, 2016 9:52:38 GMT
I am not the most scientistic *cough*thatjokewasautisticaf*cough* person out there, but I do enjoy a good amount of accuracy out there when it comes to games- especially when you get to the medieval-modern (not post modern, that would be post-WW2 I believe) periods, where I start to get triggered whenever someone makes a mistake with swords, armor, warships, ect. but I realize that at some point it needs to be fun for others who maybe don't value the accuracy or practicality of armor and weapons, and just go with it. Of course, this could be flipped around to this situation as well. Idk where I am going with this anymore, I feel high af right now so I literally don't know why I am still typing, hopefully this makes sense.
|
|
|
Post by Atrox on Sept 26, 2016 11:34:51 GMT
Normally I would agree with naming each individual part it's own thing (I'm still for vacuoles to be named vesicles since it's more general), but in this case, I don't really get the point. Is there any rule barring Eukaryotes from having pili? It might make the game more simple, but not entirely unrealistic.
Also, rhoptry, micronuclei, and micronemes aren't related to pili at all.
|
|
|
Post by Longisquama on Sept 26, 2016 17:15:43 GMT
Normally I would agree with naming each individual part it's own thing (I'm still for vacuoles to be named vesicles since it's more general), but in this case, I don't really get the point. Is there any rule barring Eukaryotes from having pili? It might make the game more simple, but not entirely unrealistic. Also, rhoptry, micronuclei, and micronemes aren't related to pili at all. The definition of pili says they are in bacteria. And those organelles are not related to pili, but could accomplish the same functions.
|
|
|
Post by Atrox on Sept 26, 2016 17:33:21 GMT
Right but had the cards been dealt differently, Eukaryotes could have pili as well no?
Also what do micronemes and rhoptry do because I've never heard of those before :0
|
|
|
Post by GRODOG on Sept 27, 2016 2:51:46 GMT
The real question is... wil bacteria have pilus?
|
|
|
Post by Atrox on Sept 27, 2016 3:21:36 GMT
Yep
|
|
|
Post by Longisquama on Sept 27, 2016 10:22:01 GMT
Right but had the cards been dealt differently, Eukaryotes could have pili as well no? Also what do micronemes and rhoptry do because I've never heard of those before :0 They are secretory organelles that are used in some protozoa, such as plasmodium, to damage other cells. So they could work like injection pilus. The micronuclei, presented in protozoa like paramecium, could work similarly to sex pilus. Contractile stalks, such in vorticella, could work as grapple pilus. Not sure if there are equivalents to stab and straw pilus. I understand that even if pilus haven't evolved in eukaryotes, similar structures could have evolved. I just don't like the idea of people playing this game leaving it thinking that pilus are structures that eukaryotes have. So I wouldn't name them that.
|
|
|
Post by Atrox on Sept 27, 2016 15:19:26 GMT
Well we already are going to have a secretory organelle. It will release compounds into the surrounding environment. I'm not sure that they would work well as substitution for the injection pilus, because 1) rhoptry and micronemes appear to be two organelles that work as one unit and 2) the penetration of the target cell is through the use of proteins, which have no way of being represented properly, other than the toxin/compound being pushed into the target cell somehow. At least with a pilus, the player will know "I should stick this thing into that thing." I agree we can do without the sex pilus but we do need a way to initiate sexual reproduction and have the player know that it's an option. Having a repurposed mostly weapon probably would confuse the player if they had more than one pilus. I actually agree with a contractile stalk (myoneme). I had completely forgotten about vorticella! Hmm... will we include multiple organelles that perform similar functions? If we do end up including pili for eukaryotes (I think it's still gonna happen), a neat compromise/idea would be to have an in-game encyclopedia that gives information on things like organelles and other such things. For the pilus page it can include a disclaimer saying that pili have only been found in bacteria in nature. tjwhale , thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by Omicron on Oct 11, 2016 18:19:00 GMT
I'm just laughing my Belgium off, thinking about a bacteria accidentally stabbing his wife trying to have sex with her...
|
|
|
Post by GRODOG on Oct 14, 2016 23:02:00 GMT
I should stick this thing into that thing im saving this quote...
|
|
|
Post by TheCreator on Oct 14, 2016 23:10:12 GMT
Atrox, nice idea. I support everything you just said. If you look at the last GUI prototype, there is actually an info window that describes what the organelles does in game and what it does in real life.
|
|