|
|
Post by Atrox on Jun 4, 2016 14:26:48 GMT
I'm imagining a creature just dragging itself along with its hind legs missing I feel like by this point, the creature would die rather quickly due to bleed damage. |
|
|
|
Post by StealthStyleL on Jun 4, 2016 14:42:11 GMT
But, even if this is true, it wouldn't die immediately.
|
|
|
|
Post by timetraveler22 on Jun 4, 2016 15:12:18 GMT
What if the organism could regenerate function in it's limb, or regenerate altogether like a salamander or a lizard?
|
|
|
|
Post by mx on Jun 5, 2016 0:52:12 GMT
I'm sure there are games for kids where the parts come off and that's not shocking to them, although I am quite tentative about this. Anyway, these are the best options we have so far, in my opinion. An example that comes to mind is lego and all the lego based games where all your body pieces explode off in different directions when you die but i'm not sure if that's the same thing. I guess it would depend on the limb, if major arteries were attached to it and how good the clotting factors in the blood are. If it was a huge animal that lost a major limb they would probably die but maybe a smaller animal gets its wing broken it could still live.. i wouldn't imagine creatures living long after they have lost a limb would be common and creatures that go on to the next generation from that would be even rarer but that short time in which they struggle would be a story to behold |
|
|
|
Post by Moopli on Jun 5, 2016 1:56:36 GMT
I can chime in from a technical point of view:
It is very feasible to have highly-specific damage in Aware stage -- chances are, we'll only ever need to accurately manage damage for a few organisms, so we can afford to be pretty detailed. How detailed am I thinking? Well, the amount of data we need to have on the body plan of any multicellular species is pretty large -- a body consisting of parts that contain other parts and connect to other parts.
In terms of damage, we'd simply need to take an approximation of what kind of damage is dealt, and where, and then we'd be able to consult the body plan, to, for example, say that an attack pierces the peritoneal cavity and causes X amount of generic organ damage. We could probably afford to be rather approximate with a lot of this, so instead of keeping track of exactly how deep a cut will penetrate, and whether it's deep enough etc to cleave a major artery, we can just use some pre-generated stats for the attacker and defender (for example, 'scratchiness' to combine factors like claw length, arm strength, and so on, to make calculations involving scratch attacking easier) and some random numbers to decide how much hurt a specific attack causes.
Since we'll be having very detailed data on the structure of each organism, we should be well able to approximate what would happen on the loss of a limb, so whenever we're working on Aware-stage combat then we will probably have limb loss.
I'm not sure about gore, and that discussion is a different one from the question of whether it's possible, which is what I wanted to address.
|
|
|
|
Post by Immortal_Dragon on Jun 5, 2016 2:53:02 GMT
I can chime in from a technical point of view: It is very feasible to have highly-specific damage in Aware stage -- chances are, we'll only ever need to accurately manage damage for a few organisms, so we can afford to be pretty detailed. How detailed am I thinking? Well, the amount of data we need to have on the body plan of any multicellular species is pretty large -- a body consisting of parts that contain other parts and connect to other parts. In terms of damage, we'd simply need to take an approximation of what kind of damage is dealt, and where, and then we'd be able to consult the body plan, to, for example, say that an attack pierces the peritoneal cavity and causes X amount of generic organ damage. We could probably afford to be rather approximate with a lot of this, so instead of keeping track of exactly how deep a cut will penetrate, and whether it's deep enough etc to cleave a major artery, we can just use some pre-generated stats for the attacker and defender (for example, 'scratchiness' to combine factors like claw length, arm strength, and so on, to make calculations involving scratch attacking easier) and some random numbers to decide how much hurt a specific attack causes. Since we'll be having very detailed data on the structure of each organism, we should be well able to approximate what would happen on the loss of a limb, so whenever we're working on Aware-stage combat then we will probably have limb loss. I'm not sure about gore, and that discussion is a different one from the question of whether it's possible, which is what I wanted to address. Well, I for one am for gore if that's the question. It happens in nature, it happens in any conflict really, so I'm all for attempting to include it if it's feasible. Just how feasible would it be? |
|
|
|
Post by Atrox on Jun 5, 2016 2:54:26 GMT
Totally for gore. I want to rip apart the enemy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Oliveriver on Jun 5, 2016 7:23:53 GMT
Totally not for gore. I'm squeamish.
Nah, it's alright, just maybe have an option to turn it off.
|
|
namoon
Sentient
Dead
Posts: 53 
|
Post by namoon on Jun 5, 2016 8:12:21 GMT
Maybe have multible levels of gore? LIke no gore to some gore to Happy Wheels level gore?
|
|
|
|
Post by Moopli on Jun 5, 2016 15:19:46 GMT
The problem with high gore is that we would have to have a better idea of what exactly is inside something's body -- frex, where each organ is, and even what it looks like.
That's something that I do not think we'll do, which means we won't have, say, happy wheels levels of gore. I guess we could have a joke setting with arcadey blood explosions instead.
|
|
|
|
Post by Atrox on Jun 5, 2016 16:09:06 GMT
The problem with high gore is that we would have to have a better idea of what exactly is inside something's body -- frex, where each organ is, and even what it looks like. That's something that I do not think we'll do, which means we won't have, say, happy wheels levels of gore. I guess we could have a joke setting with arcadey blood explosions instead. We are going to be able to place our organs manually within our organism, no? I thought that was in the concept. If we're also planning on adding in a complicated damage system (where we can damage organs if we hit the right spot), wouldn't we already know where the organs are. |
|
|
|
Post by Moopli on Jun 5, 2016 16:26:28 GMT
Figuring out whether and how much you damage each organ involves a lot of collision detection, enough that I don't think we'd want to deal with it, especially since many organs move and change shape as you bend and twist your body. Instead, what I would do if were working on it is to simply know which organ cavity (eg, peritoneal cavity, cranium, thoracic cavity) an attack penetrates, and by how much, and then roll some dice to see, of the organs within that specific cavity, what you damage and by how much.
In most cases (for example, gut wounds, or brain trauma), it doesn't matter to the combat which specific organs get damaged, so this approximation doesn't lose much. Meanwhile a pneumothorax and heart trauma are similarly deadly so I'm not sure we would particularly care to simulate that they are different.
|
|
|
|
Post by mx on Jun 6, 2016 7:36:54 GMT
I can chime in from a technical point of view: It is very feasible to have highly-specific damage in Aware stage -- chances are, we'll only ever need to accurately manage damage for a few organisms, so we can afford to be pretty detailed. How detailed am I thinking? Well, the amount of data we need to have on the body plan of any multicellular species is pretty large -- a body consisting of parts that contain other parts and connect to other parts. In terms of damage, we'd simply need to take an approximation of what kind of damage is dealt, and where, and then we'd be able to consult the body plan, to, for example, say that an attack pierces the peritoneal cavity and causes X amount of generic organ damage. We could probably afford to be rather approximate with a lot of this, so instead of keeping track of exactly how deep a cut will penetrate, and whether it's deep enough etc to cleave a major artery, we can just use some pre-generated stats for the attacker and defender (for example, 'scratchiness' to combine factors like claw length, arm strength, and so on, to make calculations involving scratch attacking easier) and some random numbers to decide how much hurt a specific attack causes. Since we'll be having very detailed data on the structure of each organism, we should be well able to approximate what would happen on the loss of a limb, so whenever we're working on Aware-stage combat then we will probably have limb loss. I'm not sure about gore, and that discussion is a different one from the question of whether it's possible, which is what I wanted to address. moopli I thought you had some ideas for the collision in a post you made up the page a bit.. did you rethink it and this (quoted above) is too hard for the game? or did this not address collisions in the way i was thinking it did? As someone with no programming background i'm just taking in what everyone is saying on the more technical mechanics but it seemed you sorrta back flipped there to someone not in the know. Just wondering if you could explain a bit clearer so i can keep up (Then again it could be way over my head) |
|
|
|
Post by Moopli on Jun 6, 2016 13:37:29 GMT
Hm, good question.
I don't think I was inconsistent -- I claim that it would be too much work to track the exact shape and position of every organ (even if you don't have that many) inside your body, and doing a collision-detection test against every injury to see whether and how much a specific organ is damaged. However, I suggest that we can get something that seems quite realistic simply by making a guess at what organ would be damaged, and how much, based on some simpler parameters.
|
|
|
|
Post by mx on Jun 7, 2016 6:46:02 GMT
Ah ok. Thanks moopli i understand a bit better now
|
|
Notsae
Multicellular
Posts: 41
|
Post by Notsae on Aug 24, 2016 0:57:41 GMT
Personally I'm all for blood and guts. And on that note what of disembowelment? Would your organs fall out and cause huge damage/near certain death? If this game is going to be realistic their would need to be different wounds like burns and radiation, which are rather grisly and involve melting and agony. Realism and child friendly are mutually exclusive. We're going for realism so far, I don't see a point in changing that. If we must add a no gore mode to it these things would just be the equivalent of status effects; just really lethal ones. Of course I'm biased and misanthropic,so... yeah.
|
|
|
|
Post by StealthStyleL on Aug 24, 2016 20:40:50 GMT
Child friendly gore: the organs and blood pouring out of your creature have google eyes. Problem solved.
|
|
|
|
Post by Moopli on Aug 24, 2016 23:43:23 GMT
Child friendly gore: the organs and blood pouring out of your creature have google eyes. Problem solved. This needs to be an option in the options menu. |
|
|
|
Post by alohameanshello on Aug 25, 2016 3:12:22 GMT
Quick summary of discussion so far
Severed limbs/permanent damage wounds good and liked for a bunch of reasons by every commenter as of now BUT in that case there needs to be an option to be an option to turn down the gore possible solutions to gore mentioned so far (from what is least gory to most gory IMO) 1. Option to turn off permanent damage all together (I've just added this now) 2. Limbs don't get severed only injured causing slower movement but not stopping it 3. Limb changes color and stops moving/functioning 4. limp limb, limb graphic doesn't change it just stops functioning and goes floppy 5. Stumping the limb without any blood (like an auto cauterize?) all of which have varying degrees of immersion breaking. Now to think of any better options to keep immersion for players that don't want gore for the devs if they impliment it Or any other thoughts i guess How about for combat the player targets a specific part of the body (i.e Fallout's VATs system)? |
|
|
|
Post by ThreeCubed on Aug 25, 2016 5:22:23 GMT
Question: If we're discussing injuries, then what about plants? What would they have for injuries? I mean a plant can regrow from a single stump if it has a leaf... So what will we do?
|
|
