samoja
Multicellular
Posts: 26
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Post by samoja on Jun 23, 2017 23:49:36 GMT
So as far as i understand it the plan is to go from single cell pretty much directly to multi celled organism, with maybe some intermediate stage where you can stick together for a few seconds, fro what i learned that is not exactly how it happened, rather the first step towards multi cellular organisms were organized colonies of microbes. Now i think following this pattern offers several advantages, the idea is that after your species reaches certain number, with perhaps having to develop some form of communication compound, you would form a colony, at which point your POW would switch from controlling single organism arcade style to controlling the colony RTS style. Not only would this allow for early implementation of systems that will be needed later in tribal/civilization/space stage but it also leads really nicely into multi celled stage, when you are controlling a colony need will arise to mutate cells in order to perform certain function, some cells would be tasked with gathering/transporting/storing resources, others with defense from predators, other cells could be tasked with signal transfer meaning in large colony you would need some way to relay signals from one end to the next. In time a defensive barrier of specialized cells could form and at this point you are only few steps away from forming a multi celled organism, all the various specialized cells you created can evolve into different kinds of tissues, then you evolve a glue to stick all the cells together and that´s that.
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Post by mitobox on Jun 24, 2017 2:05:47 GMT
So as far as i understand it the plan is to go from single cell pretty much directly to multi celled organism, with maybe some intermediate stage where you can stick together for a few seconds, fro what i learned that is not exactly how it happened, rather the first step towards multi cellular organisms were organized colonies of microbes. Now i think following this pattern offers several advantages, the idea is that after your species reaches certain number, with perhaps having to develop some form of communication compound, you would form a colony, at which point your POW would switch from controlling single organism arcade style to controlling the colony RTS style. Not only would this allow for early implementation of systems that will be needed later in tribal/civilization/space stage but it also leads really nicely into multi celled stage, when you are controlling a colony need will arise to mutate cells in order to perform certain function, some cells would be tasked with gathering/transporting/storing resources, others with defense from predators, other cells could be tasked with signal transfer meaning in large colony you would need some way to relay signals from one end to the next. In time a defensive barrier of specialized cells could form and at this point you are only few steps away from forming a multi celled organism, all the various specialized cells you created can evolve into different kinds of tissues, then you evolve a glue to stick all the cells together and that´s that. Not sure if I'm interpreting this right myself, but it sounds like you may have mistaken whatever you may have read on the Multicellular Stage, since the first part of it actually does involve organized colonies. I WOULD make a link to the old forum, if it still existed, but there were a few threads there about how the player would increase the specialization of his or her colony's cells through a "Colony Editor," which would be more complex than the Microbe Editor, although still two-dimensional. Granted, it's still in Organism Mode (or arcade style, as you put it), although there was also some discussion about having Signal Agents lead to an early version of Strategy Mode (RTS style) (which erupted into a flame war over whether hive minds' actions could be considered strategic but that's another story).
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Post by Narotiza on Jun 24, 2017 2:43:27 GMT
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samoja
Multicellular
Posts: 26
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Post by samoja on Jun 24, 2017 8:07:09 GMT
So as far as i understand it the plan is to go from single cell pretty much directly to multi celled organism, with maybe some intermediate stage where you can stick together for a few seconds, fro what i learned that is not exactly how it happened, rather the first step towards multi cellular organisms were organized colonies of microbes. Now i think following this pattern offers several advantages, the idea is that after your species reaches certain number, with perhaps having to develop some form of communication compound, you would form a colony, at which point your POW would switch from controlling single organism arcade style to controlling the colony RTS style. Not only would this allow for early implementation of systems that will be needed later in tribal/civilization/space stage but it also leads really nicely into multi celled stage, when you are controlling a colony need will arise to mutate cells in order to perform certain function, some cells would be tasked with gathering/transporting/storing resources, others with defense from predators, other cells could be tasked with signal transfer meaning in large colony you would need some way to relay signals from one end to the next. In time a defensive barrier of specialized cells could form and at this point you are only few steps away from forming a multi celled organism, all the various specialized cells you created can evolve into different kinds of tissues, then you evolve a glue to stick all the cells together and that´s that. Not sure if I'm interpreting this right myself, but it sounds like you may have mistaken whatever you may have read on the Multicellular Stage, since the first part of it actually does involve organized colonies. I WOULD make a link to the old forum, if it still existed, but there were a few threads there about how the player would increase the specialization of his or her colony's cells through a "Colony Editor," which would be more complex than the Microbe Editor, although still two-dimensional. Granted, it's still in Organism Mode (or arcade style, as you put it), although there was also some discussion about having Signal Agents lead to an early version of Strategy Mode (RTS style) (which erupted into a flame war over whether hive minds' actions could be considered strategic but that's another story). IDK, all i saw was a suggestion to have bonding agent developed so you can stick to cells of your own species (though i really can´t see why you would want to, it would just limit you) or a chemical to let other members of your species form around you (again i don´t see why you would want that, they would just suck up all the resources and limit your movement in case you really did run into a predator) my idea is more like you get a small cloud of cells of your species that you can select and give orders to like you would RTS units, at first you only have base cell, but as you go along you can mutate some of your base cells into specific roles, food distribution would allow you to control how much of each cell type you have (allocating more food would lead to that cell type procreating more) developing organs should follow naturally based on the needs player has for certain types of cell.
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Post by mitobox on Jun 24, 2017 16:50:02 GMT
all i saw was a suggestion to have bonding agent developed so you can stick to cells of your own species (though i really can´t see why you would want to, it would just limit you) or a chemical to let other members of your species form around you (again i don´t see why you would want that, they would just suck up all the resources and limit your movement in case you really did run into a predator) Your own idea doesn't exactly solve this, either, since there's going to be a gap between forming colonies and developing cellular specialization. Besides, why do you assume that the player would be stuck at the center of this colony? Choanoflagellates, single-celled relatives of modern animals, act just like Thrive cells in that they will stick together into a temporary colony when signaled to do so. However, they only group together at the front and sides, while their rears face outward. A food-catching "net" around their flagella allows them to feed. Logically, the player should be able to replicate this by putting the excretion points for the bonding agent in particular hexes along the cell membrane, sort of like the idea the devs had for "engulfing edges." Cells would only be able to glue themselves to spots like those, meaning not all parts of the player's body would be covered. This means that the player wouldn't have to worry about dying, since (s)he's only blocked on one side, and the signal agent would dissipate before long. As for your concern about predators, consider the fact that the collective body of cells would be impossible to engulf by a single predator cell. Furthermore, if the Microbe Stage AI is good, the cells may be able to collectively avoid threats (even predators with harmful agent emitters), since cells would only use their propulsion organelles when it would propel them away from a threat. my idea is more like you get a small cloud of cells of your species that you can select and give orders to like you would RTS units, at first you only have base cell, but as you go along you can mutate some of your base cells into specific roles, food distribution would allow you to control how much of each cell type you have (allocating more food would lead to that cell type procreating more) developing organs should follow naturally based on the needs player has for certain types of cell. Here's the problem, though; that makes an incredibly jarring transition when it comes to moving onto the main Multicellular Stage. You go from controlling a single-celled microbe to micromanaging multiple cells in the same colony, then get big enough to arbitrarily lose control over those individual cells. Very tedious and immersion-breaking. Contrast this with the idea that's already in place, where the cells operate as a unit, rather than require much micromanaging. When the game switches from 2D to 3D, you've already been playing as a single entity in either case.
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samoja
Multicellular
Posts: 26
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Post by samoja on Jun 24, 2017 17:28:42 GMT
Here's the problem, though; that makes an incredibly jarring transition when it comes to moving onto the main Multicellular Stage. You go from controlling a single-celled microbe to micromanaging multiple cells in the same colony, then get big enough to arbitrarily lose control over those individual cells. Very tedious and immersion-breaking. Contrast this with the idea that's already in place, where the cells operate as a unit, rather than require much micromanaging. When the game switches from 2D to 3D, you've already been playing as a single entity in either case. Not really, you simply start to integrate groups of cells with bonding agent, first you integrate border cells into precursor of a skin, then you may integrate mover cells to form muscles and propel your colony easier, you integrate feeder cells into primitive digestive system and so on, it´s all about framing, it would be jarring if you just lost control of the individual cells, but if you made a series of decisions to reduce the need to micromanage your colony then it would not be jarring, it would be a natural result of the choices you did in game.
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