Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 12:54:25 GMT
Whoopee, third consecutive thread in this section. Brilliant. So.
Say you're a humble deserty creature, living about your ways, and really flourishing in your deserty place. You then decide, for whatever reason, to go into a slightly colder (-39C) environment. Simple biology will tell you this is not the place for a deserty creature to live. Now, it CAN be argued that since nights in a desert are belgiuming freezing, and it could be that the creature comes from a cold desert. Or maybe somewhere like Antarctica, where it's at its worst -63C or something like that. But this is a hot desert, Sahara-Arabia-Chilean desert like desert. Not the Mongolian one. So the creature will undergo sudden temperature change. This can go 3 ways. 1. If your creature has a particularly weak heart, it will suffer cardiac arrest as the heart is going through too much stress, resulting in heart failure and death. ![]()  2. The body temperature of your creature falls beneath the point where it can function and you gradually suffer internal body damage until you die your painful death.  3. Your creature simply doesn't care.  So is damage based on body temperature going to be implemented. Y/N Am I going to stop making threads. Please help. I need to stop. |
|
|
|
Post by Atrox on Apr 18, 2017 13:23:44 GMT
Please don't stop making threads these are great discussion topics that we've been needing for months!
Temperature damage is almost certainly going to be added. One of the main factors that affects life is climate (just look at the ice age and global warming)! You can circumvent this by making your creature a little more adaptable though, say if it migrates a lot and goes through many different environments over the course of it's life, it would be one of those "doesn't care" creatures.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 14:39:45 GMT
Wait, I'm benefiting this place somewhat by making threads?
Oh.
Cool.
I never honestly realised that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 15:04:49 GMT
Wait, I'm benefiting this place somewhat by making threads? Oh. Cool. I never honestly realised that. Yeah I really like these more speculative threads, it reminds me of the old forums. I think there should be different kinds of skin coverings that can reduce thermal damage, as for how temperature damage should actually be modelled, it would probably have something to do with how your creature is built. Certain chemical reactions tend to become very ineffective beyond a very specific temperature range. I'd also like to see some sort of distinction between warm and cold blooded creatures, warm blooded creatures can negate temperature damage up to a certain point, but they spend a lot of energy doing so. There could also be something along the lines of the plates of a stegosaurus, or elephant ears, so you can radiate heat away if it gets too warm. There are a lot of posibilities here... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 10:11:05 GMT
Or maybe even a massive Belgium-off spine like a spinosaurus.
|
|
The_Wayward_Admiral
Spacefaring
The_Real_Slim_Shady
Atrox drew this awesome image of the Keldori!
Posts: 1,011 
|
Post by The_Wayward_Admiral on Apr 19, 2017 21:37:50 GMT
Did someone say thermoregulation?  Allow the Wayward One to spin you a yarn of temperature change and phenotypic plasticity. In nature, there are many creatures living in extreme temperature environments, such as antarctic fish. These creatures tend to have highly specific enzymes which stop functioning out of their evolved temperature range. This will kill them before freezing or boiling will. Take an antarctic ice fish into water 1 degree celsius above ~33C, and it will be almost incapable of metabolizing anything. But this is not standard of vertebrates. Most vertebrates live in somewhat variable temperature areas, and must engage in phenotypic plasticity. Things in behavior and environment (i.e. exercise, longer days, etc.) cause epigenetic switches to change gene expression. This can cause things like heat shock proteins or anti-freeze molecules to be produced and improve a creature's fitness. Ultimately, evolutionary history will inform plasticity. Thermoregulatory structures can also be manipulated, such as vasodilation/vasoconstriction in a radiating sail, retraction of a fin, etc. Then of course there are behavioral controls, such as the facultative homeothermy of desert lizards, who can keep their body temperature above that of surrounding sediments by basking and shaking. All of this can contribute to an organism's success or failure in a new temperature environment, and I think that the behavior and macro-level items can be implemented in the Aware stage, and quite possibly even something like Heat Shock Proteins if we want to get detailed. In terms of divide between warm and cold blooded creatures, it can be beautifully complex in the real world and I hope we can implement some of that complexity in the game. Cold bloodedness in the traditional sense can be treated as poikelothermy: not conforming to a standard temperature. Warm bloodedness in the traditional sense can be treated as homeothermy: conforming to a standard temperature. Homeothermy can exist at many levels, and while it costs a lot of energy to maintain higher temperatures, those temperatures also make you more active, which is advantageous in many environments. A similar situation to homeothermy is gigantothermy, which would be something like a sauropod, where it has a massive heat source internally (in this case, its bacteria laden gut), and it will be warm no matter what. It's primary concern would be cooling off. I would love to have a lengthy discussion about the relative merits of these strategies, but I've already taken up a lot of space and gone slightly off topic. Sorry :/ TL;DR: The_Wayward_Admiral cares too much about thermoregulation. |
|
|
|
Post by Omicron on Apr 20, 2017 7:13:40 GMT
Did someone say thermoregulation? Allow the Wayward One to spin you a yarn of temperature change and phenotypic plasticity. In nature, there are many creatures living in extreme temperature environments, such as antarctic fish. These creatures tend to have highly specific enzymes which stop functioning out of their evolved temperature range. This will kill them before freezing or boiling will. Take an antarctic ice fish into water 1 degree celsius above ~33C, and it will be almost incapable of metabolizing anything. But this is not standard of vertebrates. Most vertebrates live in somewhat variable temperature areas, and must engage in phenotypic plasticity. Things in behavior and environment (i.e. exercise, longer days, etc.) cause epigenetic switches to change gene expression. This can cause things like heat shock proteins or anti-freeze molecules to be produced and improve a creature's fitness. Ultimately, evolutionary history will inform plasticity. Thermoregulatory structures can also be manipulated, such as vasodilation/vasoconstriction in a radiating sail, retraction of a fin, etc. Then of course there are behavioral controls, such as the facultative homeothermy of desert lizards, who can keep their body temperature above that of surrounding sediments by basking and shaking. All of this can contribute to an organism's success or failure in a new temperature environment, and I think that the behavior and macro-level items can be implemented in the Aware stage, and quite possibly even something like Heat Shock Proteins if we want to get detailed. In terms of divide between warm and cold blooded creatures, it can be beautifully complex in the real world and I hope we can implement some of that complexity in the game. Cold bloodedness in the traditional sense can be treated as poikelothermy: not conforming to a standard temperature. Warm bloodedness in the traditional sense can be treated as homeothermy: conforming to a standard temperature. Homeothermy can exist at many levels, and while it costs a lot of energy to maintain higher temperatures, those temperatures also make you more active, which is advantageous in many environments. A similar situation to homeothermy is gigantothermy, which would be something like a sauropod, where it has a massive heat source internally (in this case, its bacteria laden gut), and it will be warm no matter what. It's primary concern would be cooling off. I would love to have a lengthy discussion about the relative merits of these strategies, but I've already taken up a lot of space and gone slightly off topic. Sorry :/ TL;DR: The_Wayward_Admiral cares too much about thermoregulation. As someone that doesn't have English as his native language; What? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 12:05:20 GMT
Did someone say thermoregulation? Allow the Wayward One to spin you a yarn of temperature change and phenotypic plasticity. In nature, there are many creatures living in extreme temperature environments, such as antarctic fish. These creatures tend to have highly specific enzymes which stop functioning out of their evolved temperature range. This will kill them before freezing or boiling will. Take an antarctic ice fish into water 1 degree celsius above ~33C, and it will be almost incapable of metabolizing anything. But this is not standard of vertebrates. Most vertebrates live in somewhat variable temperature areas, and must engage in phenotypic plasticity. Things in behavior and environment (i.e. exercise, longer days, etc.) cause epigenetic switches to change gene expression. This can cause things like heat shock proteins or anti-freeze molecules to be produced and improve a creature's fitness. Ultimately, evolutionary history will inform plasticity. Thermoregulatory structures can also be manipulated, such as vasodilation/vasoconstriction in a radiating sail, retraction of a fin, etc. Then of course there are behavioral controls, such as the facultative homeothermy of desert lizards, who can keep their body temperature above that of surrounding sediments by basking and shaking. All of this can contribute to an organism's success or failure in a new temperature environment, and I think that the behavior and macro-level items can be implemented in the Aware stage, and quite possibly even something like Heat Shock Proteins if we want to get detailed. In terms of divide between warm and cold blooded creatures, it can be beautifully complex in the real world and I hope we can implement some of that complexity in the game. Cold bloodedness in the traditional sense can be treated as poikelothermy: not conforming to a standard temperature. Warm bloodedness in the traditional sense can be treated as homeothermy: conforming to a standard temperature. Homeothermy can exist at many levels, and while it costs a lot of energy to maintain higher temperatures, those temperatures also make you more active, which is advantageous in many environments. A similar situation to homeothermy is gigantothermy, which would be something like a sauropod, where it has a massive heat source internally (in this case, its bacteria laden gut), and it will be warm no matter what. It's primary concern would be cooling off. I would love to have a lengthy discussion about the relative merits of these strategies, but I've already taken up a lot of space and gone slightly off topic. Sorry :/ TL;DR: The_Wayward_Admiral cares too much about thermoregulation. As someone who has English as his native language: What? |
|
|
|
Post by serialkiller🌴 on Apr 20, 2017 14:44:55 GMT
I'm confused , waywards post wasn't that complicated ... what did I miss ?
|
|
The_Wayward_Admiral
Spacefaring
The_Real_Slim_Shady
Atrox drew this awesome image of the Keldori!
Posts: 1,011
|
Post by The_Wayward_Admiral on Apr 20, 2017 15:30:10 GMT
Sorry, I got excited because this a subject I know a lot about that I don't get to talk about much. I lapsed into term paper mode. I'd be happy to summarize it with more common terminology in a bit if you'd like, because I agree upon review that it depends on a fair bit of foreknowledge of physiology terminology.
|
|
|
|
Post by Omicron on Apr 20, 2017 18:25:10 GMT
Sorry, I got excited because this a subject I know a lot about that I don't get to talk about much. I lapsed into term paper mode. I'd be happy to summarize it with more common terminology in a bit if you'd like, because I agree upon review that it depends on a fair bit of foreknowledge of physiology terminology. Nah, I did get most of it. Sometimes you used a little too advanced terminology, but google helped |
|
