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Post by NickTheNick on Feb 22, 2017 7:41:05 GMT
Hey guys, we want to get some feedback from you, so it's time to talk about the recent update and the plans for the next release. I posted this also as a thread on our subreddit here (https://www.reddit.com/r/thrive/comments/5vhdv9/thoughts_on_033_suggestions_for_034/) if you'd rather respond there.
So as you've probably noticed we just came out with our latest release not too long ago. There was some talk about your thoughts on the update here (http://thrivegame.freeforums.net/thread/1245/3-final?page=1). What do you guys think of this new update? Do you enjoy the new features? Is there anything you didn't enjoy about the update? How do you think the overall game feels right now?
Secondly, and more importantly, what changes do you want to see in 0.3.4? Any features you want to see implemented? What do you think are the most important goals for the developers in the next few updates?
Let us know!
Note: This is a serious thread so keep things on topic.
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Post by Mouthwash on Feb 22, 2017 12:48:36 GMT
I think I've made my point in the release thread, but I also want to say that I think that stuff like graphics or performance enhancements really need to be put on the backburner in favor of mechanics. The game isn't even a proof-of-concept for microbe stage yet.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 13:09:44 GMT
I think I've made my point in the release thread, but I also want to say that I think that stuff like graphics or performance enhancements really need to be put on the backburner in favor of mechanics. The game isn't even a proof-of-concept for microbe stage yet. I agree with Mouthwash. I know you guys like messing with the background and making the game look cool, but for now, there are more important things to focus on. I feel like the game is currently missing the most exciting part of the gameplay for me: combat. So maybe first make the gameplay a little more engaging. 0.3.3 is already kinda like a first step towards that goal. I think this will also make the game more of a game rather than a simulation. Please don't take any of this as offensive though! I love the idea of thrive and I'm just trying to help. Also, I have no idea how hard it is to create new features as opposed to improving the graphics so...
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Post by crodnu on Feb 22, 2017 14:33:31 GMT
The graphics and the coding are made by two different teams, so holding graphics back wouldn't really make improving gameplay faster.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 15:04:11 GMT
The graphics and the coding are made by two different teams, so holding graphics back wouldn't really make improving gameplay faster. I'm sorry I didn't realise that, I have no idea how game development actually works. I thought that there were a lot of people like TheCreator that can do both graphics and coding. I feel so stupid now, trying to look all professional by writing, like, half a page worth of nonsense
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Post by Mouthwash on Feb 22, 2017 15:44:54 GMT
The graphics and the coding are made by two different teams, so holding graphics back wouldn't really make improving gameplay faster. In that case, maybe the releases could go more by how much the actual gameplay progresses? I was expecting at least bacteria after 0.3.3.
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Post by StealthStyleL on Feb 22, 2017 17:14:58 GMT
Imdont think we are that far off bacteria.
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Post by NickTheNick on Feb 22, 2017 19:20:20 GMT
Mouthwash @sentiant : I'd definitely agree with you. The the thing is though that for a lot of the mechanics we want to implement, we just need programmers to take up the task of implementing them. Also as Atrox said many of the people who work on the graphics are not also part of the team working on programming new features into the game. But nevertheless I think something like bacteria or agents or combat improvements would be really important for the next update. In fact I think bacteria was scheduled for the last release, but we simply don't have a programmer working on it. The art and design behind them are pretty much complete. If any of you guys can code and want to take up the task or know someone who can please don't hesitate to ask.
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Post by Mouthwash on Feb 22, 2017 21:21:08 GMT
Mouthwash @sentiant : I'd definitely agree with you. The the thing is though that for a lot of the mechanics we want to implement, we just need programmers to take up the task of implementing them. Also as Atrox said many of the people who work on the graphics are not also part of the team working on programming new features into the game. But nevertheless I think something like bacteria or agents or combat improvements would be really important for the next update. In fact I think bacteria was scheduled for the last release, but we simply don't have a programmer working on it. The art and design behind them are pretty much complete. If any of you guys can code and want to take up the task or know someone who can please don't hesitate to ask. I'll do what I can... which really isn't much. Are you guys doing outreach at all?
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Post by NickTheNick on Feb 22, 2017 21:26:07 GMT
We've contacted some of our old members and posted some advertisements, but are planning to still do more. I personally will have a few free days coming up where I'll be able to do some outreach.
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Post by crodnu on Feb 23, 2017 1:29:00 GMT
Also as Atrox said many of the people who work on the graphics are not also part of the team working on programming new features into the game. I'm actually crodnu, but i got turned into a lippy toucan by an evil mod xD
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Post by NickTheNick on Feb 23, 2017 1:33:17 GMT
Oh haha that's true, I did not even read the username.
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Post by Atrox on Feb 23, 2017 17:09:37 GMT
I was happy to have been relevant for a moment ;u;
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Post by Charred on Mar 1, 2017 19:17:56 GMT
Hello. I have never heard about your project before, but the premise seems interesting, so I gave it a shot. I'm sorry to say that, but it's currently playable in the same sense as a burned omelette is edible. So there's what imho could be improved.
1. Make a/d turn the cell left/right. The controls now are really clunky.
2. Color-code elements to correspond with their icons on the list. I'd like to know what color I'm chasing this time around.
3. Either I'm missing something big or the cell division only works once, in the tutorial. I couldn't get the cell redactor to open since.
4. A lot of crashes. A ton of bugs. For example, you can't start a new game after quitting to a main menu.
5. Transparency was somewhat vague, but maybe it's because I misunderstood something, can't really tell. For example, I couldn't really tell what either organelle does or what makes health regenerate.
Also, it's interesting that you included aerobic glycolysis in the first stage. On Earth, the anaerobic glycolysis is older. Not that I mind, we have a fictional planet after all, I just wonder if it's intentional.
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Post by mitobox on Mar 1, 2017 22:31:14 GMT
1. Make a/d turn the cell left/right. The controls now are really clunky. I agree that the current way the cells move is inconvenient, although more so because it conflicts with how playing as a single animal should work in the later stages (animals don't randomly sidestep). Basically, the reason why the current movement scheme is how it is is to account for how microbes in the real world don't always have their mobility confined to forwards and backwards. If microbes in this game could only move forwards, then the future additions of cilia and pseudopoda would useless, or even left out (which would be quite jarring). I say the current movement scheme makes a reasonable (although not entirely necessary) sacrifice. 2. Color-code elements to correspond with their icons on the list. I'd like to know what color I'm chasing this time around. They already are. If you click the Menu button, the help option explains that there are only four compounds that can be gathered (the raw materials for all the others): oxygen, which is in cyan "clouds"; glucose, in white clouds; ammonia, in yellow clouds; and CO2, in blue clouds. All of these colors match up with the color of their icons on the list. 3. Either I'm missing something big or the cell division only works once, in the tutorial. I couldn't get the cell redactor to open since. Did your microbe have the needed materials to reproduce? Basically, your cell, just like a real cell, takes in materials, and consumes them to make others. The one needed for mitosis is "reproductase" which serves as a placeholder for compounds needed for cell division. If you don't have reproductase (made from amino acids, in turn from ammonia and glucose), then your cell won't be able to divide and evolve. Way back (when all the cells looked like honey combs, due to placeholder organelle models being hexagons), you could go into the editor at any time, but that left the game with little substance. 4. A lot of crashes. A ton of bugs. For example, you can't start a new game after quitting to a main menu. Nothing to disagree with here. There were "release candidates" for 0.3.3 that players could test for bugs, but those were before all the new features where in, so I suppose the 0.3.3 we have is another bug hunt. Not that I'm complaining, as long as the most major bugs are fixed in 0.3.4. 5. Transparency was somewhat vague, but maybe it's because I misunderstood something, can't really tell. For example, I couldn't really tell what either organelle does or what makes health regenerate. Again, the "help" option in the menu is your friend here. I'm pretty sure the only question of yours that the help window leaves unanswered is how healing works (I'm pretty sure your cell automatically consumes amino acids to heal). Also, it's interesting that you included aerobic glycolysis in the first stage. On Earth, the anaerobic glycolysis is older. Not that I mind, we have a fictional planet after all, I just wonder if it's intentional. To put a long story short, the devs decided to have the Microbe Stage skip the anaerobic-aerobic transition. Not that prokaryotes will be left out entirely, of course. Here's one of the devs' answers from the old forum: Since the Microbe stage covers the development of eukaryotic life, it starts at least a billion years after the dawn of life. Cyanobacteria (or an equivalent) have filled the oceans, quite a bit of land too, and are the source of the now-heavily-oxygenated atmosphere. Prokaryotes of all kinds are everywhere; especially in the sorts of rich pools where early eukaryotic life would probably have thrived. So I suggest we reflect that in Thrive, and have all sorts of prokaryotes present in the water. Prokaryotes are generally tiny compared to eukaryotes, so many would only be noticeable in clouds; but we also need bacteria more on the scale of organelles, since mitochondria and chloroplasts, at least, are acquired through phagocytosis of the right bacteria. Since the game doesn't start at the dawn of life, it doesn't make sense to have large amounts of random compounds (like glucose) floating around. Luckily, with prokaryotes everywhere, we won't need those random clouds of compound appearing on their own, since prokaryotes can provide that food supply instead. What's more, this gives the lysosome a clear role in-game -- digesting phagocytosed bacteria. Not sure when they'll roll out bacteria to replace the colored clouds, although I assume they'll be conveniently color-coded as well.
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Post by Mouthwash on Mar 1, 2017 23:17:53 GMT
Wait, we won't be able to get compounds from the environment? At all?
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Post by Longisquama on Mar 2, 2017 0:04:23 GMT
Wait, we won't be able to get compounds from the environment? At all? At least for some of them, it would be the best. I mean, in real life, you can't find glucose in the environment, first because glucose is something produced by autotrophs organisms to store energy, and equally important, because all glucose that could be liberated from any organism upon death is automatically consumed by bacterias. So, yeah, at least glucose should be only found in bacteria, and in remnants of other cells.
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Post by NickTheNick on Mar 2, 2017 0:08:43 GMT
3. Either I'm missing something big or the cell division only works once, in the tutorial. I couldn't get the cell redactor to open since. Did your microbe have the needed materials to reproduce? Basically, your cell, just like a real cell, takes in materials, and consumes them to make others. The one needed for mitosis is "reproductase" which serves as a placeholder for compounds needed for cell division. If you don't have reproductase (made from amino acids, in turn from ammonia and glucose), then your cell won't be able to divide and evolve. Way back (when all the cells looked like honey combs, due to placeholder organelle models being hexagons), you could go into the editor at any time, but that left the game with little substance. Actually reproductase has been completely removed as a concept. To reproduce, your cell will replicate each of your organelles one by one, and then in the final step replicate the nucleus and split off into two separate cells. That final step is what is happening when you click the editor button. Thus ammonia and glucose are directly used to replicate the organelles and progress this process (For those interested, the glucose and ammonia are synthesized into fatty acids and amino acids inside the cell, which then themselves are used for building the new organelles). Reproductase is now completely out of the picture. Mouthwash : No, compound clouds will definitely always exist and float around, but what moopli is referring to is that they will hardly occur naturally like they do currently, and specifically compounds like glucose. Instead you need to consume cells (bacteria or eukaryotes) that produce it themselves. Or you can consume cells that don't produce it themselves but may have some in storage. IIRC ammonia is also one of the ones that is mostly obtained from eating bacteria. However, clouds like oxygen and carbon dioxide will still be plentifully found in the environment.
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Post by mitobox on Mar 11, 2017 7:53:12 GMT
I was playing some 0.2.4 out of nostalgia. This was back when every cell was a honeycomb of hexagonal organelles, and moved like a bumper car.
Anyway, playing it reminded me of something that I found interesting, but not particularly useful until now: while an organelle was not being used, it would turn pale. However, when the necessary compounds for it to perform its processes were gathered, it would brighten to its usual color.
This might be a bit late, but maybe something like this could return (which would help players know that certain processes are working, and not bugged or sidelined by higher-priority processes)? I know being able to deactivate individual organelles is planned for the future, so it could work there, as well.
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