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ADP
Sept 17, 2016 22:28:05 GMT
Post by ATP Kraken on Sept 17, 2016 22:28:05 GMT
A new compound is suggested, ADP (Adenosine diphosphate). This is the "depleted" form of ATP (Adenosine triphosphate). Remembering what I did from high school chemistry, one phosphate group is removed from the ATP molecule, forming ADP and releasing some energy to be used. This is suggested because using chloroplasts and mitochondria results in infinite ATP, making physicists cry. Also, there should be a way to make adenosine and the three phosphate groups, because how else did ATP form?
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ADP
Sept 18, 2016 16:50:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by TheCreator on Sept 18, 2016 16:50:56 GMT
A new compound is suggested, ADP (Adenosine diphosphate). This is the "depleted" form of ATP (Adenosine triphosphate). Remembering what I did from high school chemistry, one phosphate group is removed from the ATP molecule, forming ADP and releasing some energy to be used. This is suggested because using chloroplasts and mitochondria results in infinite ATP, making physicists cry. Also, there should be a way to make adenosine and the three phosphate groups, because how else did ATP form? Not infinite energy because light is an input.
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ADP
Sept 18, 2016 19:09:11 GMT
Post by ATP Kraken on Sept 18, 2016 19:09:11 GMT
True, but like water, light would be infinite under lightspots, unless they were to move or fade.
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The_Wayward_Admiral
Spacefaring
The_Real_Slim_Shady
Atrox drew this awesome image of the Keldori!
Posts: 1,011
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ADP
Sept 18, 2016 19:28:46 GMT
Post by The_Wayward_Admiral on Sept 18, 2016 19:28:46 GMT
True, but like water, light would be infinite under lightspots, unless they were to move or fade. I believe that's the ideal case. There needn't be incentive for plants to move unless something obstructs their light source or there's a nearby herbivorous/toxic cellular enemy. Much like algae, they will have their needs met by virtue of their lifestyle. And then of course beyond the microbe stage there'll be day/night cycling that incentivizes plants to maximize production during the day to survive the night. EDIT: ATP Kraken I believe I've been misunderstanding you. If I may, I think I understand now. The reason that there is a continuous build up of ATP in photosynthesizing cells is not a bug, but I believe a feature. I of course was not around when chloroplasts were implemented, but they mirror nature. Real plants do not need to augment their diet with any external sources because all of the energy (and by extension their ATP) is provided by sunlight. In nature this is not an infinite loop because, in the short term, there is limited light/water, in the medium term, limited adenosine and, in the long term, the sun will eventually cease fusion. In the game, the same process is modeled as it happens (more or less, accounting for limited complexity and computing resources), which gives the weird and possibly unique game mechanic of "limitless" ATP. The reasoning behind this, I assume, is to encourage photosynthetic AI and player cells to mimic plants, which again have no need of anything but sunlight to persist until other natural or artificial causes end them. Have I understood correctly?
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ADP
Sept 19, 2016 1:50:56 GMT
ja1cob likes this
Post by ja1cob on Sept 19, 2016 1:50:56 GMT
A new compound is suggested, ADP (Adenosine diphosphate). This is the "depleted" form of ATP (Adenosine triphosphate). Remembering what I did from high school chemistry, one phosphate group is removed from the ATP molecule, forming ADP and releasing some energy to be used. This is suggested because using chloroplasts and mitochondria results in infinite ATP, making physicists cry. Also, there should be a way to make adenosine and the three phosphate groups, because how else did ATP form? It doesn't make sense to add ADP, it's getting waaay too specific with the chemistry. At the end of the day this is still just a game, not a biochemical simulator. Making adenosine and phosphate their own compounds too?? Are you kidding?
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Post by Atrox on Sept 20, 2016 10:20:15 GMT
A new compound is suggested, ADP (Adenosine diphosphate). This is the "depleted" form of ATP (Adenosine triphosphate). Remembering what I did from high school chemistry, one phosphate group is removed from the ATP molecule, forming ADP and releasing some energy to be used. This is suggested because using chloroplasts and mitochondria results in infinite ATP, making physicists cry. Also, there should be a way to make adenosine and the three phosphate groups, because how else did ATP form? It doesn't make sense to add ADP, it's getting waaay too specific with the chemistry. At the end of the day this is still just a game, not a biochemical simulator. Making adenosine and phosphate their own compounds too?? Are you kidding? Well the one of the major goals of the game is to be as realistic as possible...
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ADP
Sept 20, 2016 15:41:49 GMT
ja1cob likes this
Post by ja1cob on Sept 20, 2016 15:41:49 GMT
It doesn't make sense to add ADP, it's getting waaay too specific with the chemistry. At the end of the day this is still just a game, not a biochemical simulator. Making adenosine and phosphate their own compounds too?? Are you kidding? Well the one of the major goals of the game is to be as realistic as possible... No, the goal is to create as realistic as possible while creating a fun game. Adding adenosine and phosphate into the mix makes things too complex, and makes the game slow down even more. There's a reason we aren't simulating every atom for the sake of "realism".
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Post by serialkiller🌴 on Sept 20, 2016 17:09:22 GMT
Simulating every atom is nearly impossible . Adding a few new Processes and compounds is not that complicated and would add a lot of realism to the game . And for some people chemistry is fun ( I'm pretty sure most of us are science fans that enjoy biology and chemistry )
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ADP
Sept 20, 2016 18:18:00 GMT
ja1cob likes this
Post by ja1cob on Sept 20, 2016 18:18:00 GMT
What does adding phosphate and adenosine provide to the game? To actually add those compounds would need to add all the important relationships that those compounds go into and that is getting too deep, we need to recognize where our focus lies and where to draw the line.
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Post by Moopli on Sept 20, 2016 18:39:54 GMT
ja1cob has a point -- the problem that would be solved by adding ADP can be solved by tweaking how ATP production rate scales with ATP level instead. I implemented a system that mostly does this in our last release, but it's not working perfectly yet -- essentially, we'd need to make it possible for the compound flows in each processing step to depend on each others' rates as well as just on the amount of input/output compounds; meaning ATP can be produced by respiration at the same time as it's used by, say, protein synthesis. Then, we can increase ATP turnover without having to increase ATP stockpiles to keep the system stable.
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