|
Post by mx on Jun 3, 2016 12:48:30 GMT
(Couldn't see a thread for this)
Is it planned or is there any ideas around permanent injuries that don't lead to death for an organism? would this game be realistic enough to assess how the damage affects you in the long run?
Personally i think it would make for some awesome game experience and harrowing stories of your half ripped apart creature struggling out and away from the predator and painfully living out its few last days before scavengers come pick apart whats left of you or you find your pack and they keep you alive and you end up living long enough to reproduce (much better than a simple health bar for sure)
Although i have no idea about the coding complexity of this
|
|
|
Post by timetraveler22 on Jun 3, 2016 12:58:40 GMT
Yeah it'd be great, but I'd think to code that for any limbs or exterior extrusions(like a tail) to be automatically able to be lost in a fight would me a bit much on any computer. I'd also think that if it were to happen, wouldn't the player just might as well find a way to "an hero" to be more efficient? I mean sure, it's realistic, but if you're going to respawn with all in one piece would feel redundant to have to go through limb loss.
Thinking about it does look nice, but it's a long ways away from what I think any computer is capable of.
|
|
The_Wayward_Admiral
Spacefaring
The_Real_Slim_Shady
Atrox drew this awesome image of the Keldori!
Posts: 1,011
|
Post by The_Wayward_Admiral on Jun 3, 2016 13:07:06 GMT
Fallout can keep track of indivdual limb damage, but if we end up with a game that's uber-realistic about weird biologies it might be difficult to define what exactly a limb is and where it stops. Perhaps it could be joint by joint, once a certain amount of damage takes place on one section, it falls off at the joint with a bleed out period.
I have read vague plans about a system of this nature, and I'll try to find some more information from the wiki if I a can...
|
|
|
Post by mx on Jun 3, 2016 13:46:50 GMT
timetraveler22 I don't understand what you mean by "an hero" can you explain this for me The_Wayward_Admiral more info would be great. Id love to read about it even if it doesn't end up in thrive. EDIT; another idea would be that the limbs aren't animated a severed but just go limp with a message like *Limb #3 has been damaged beyond function or repair* and whatever bonus it was giving switched off (I have no idea about coding or if this makes it easier in even the slightest way, just throwing out ideas)
|
|
|
Post by timetraveler22 on Jun 3, 2016 13:55:59 GMT
timetraveler22 I don't understand what you mean by "an hero" can you explain this for me The_Wayward_Admiral more info would be great. Id love to read about it even if it doesn't end up in thrive. EDIT; another idea would be that the limbs aren't animated a severed but just go limp with a message like *Limb #3 has been damaged beyond function or repair* and whatever bonus it was giving switched off (I have no idea about coding or if this makes it easier in even the slightest way, just throwing out ideas) "an hero" is a term on 4chan for suicide.
|
|
|
Post by StealthStyleL on Jun 3, 2016 16:56:55 GMT
Surely when you create your organism, you would tag the limb as a limb. The limb could take damage separately and thus when it's health bar runs out, it is dismembered. I just had a gruesome image of your organism, just dragging itself along with severed or broken limbs. That's made me think of something else.
Some players don't want gruesome gameplay and so they can turn off blood and organs and such. What would the alternative to this system be though?
I would quite like to see it in the game though.
|
|
|
Post by Immortal_Dragon on Jun 3, 2016 17:25:20 GMT
Surely when you create your organism, you would tag the limb as a limb. The limb could take damage separately and thus when it's health bar runs out, it is dismembered. I just had a gruesome image of your organism, just dragging itself along with severed or broken limbs. That's made me think of something else. Some players don't want gruesome gameplay and so they can turn off blood and organs and such. What would the alternative to this system be though? I would quite like to see it in the game though. Well, we could take a page from Fallout's book and just make the limb go limp and thus we'd have creatures limping along or having an attached limb just flopping about rather than dismembered. The limb wouldn't work on its own until it either healed or the creature died and the player would be reborn as a new individual.
|
|
|
Post by StealthStyleL on Jun 3, 2016 17:26:35 GMT
That still sounds kinda gruesome.
|
|
|
Post by Immortal_Dragon on Jun 3, 2016 18:38:49 GMT
Well there really aren't many ways to show a limb has stopped functioning without making it look gruesome or slightly ruining immersion. Like, we could have the limb go bright red and have it freeze in place, but that falls under the category of ruining immersion, or at least it would for me.
|
|
|
Post by Atrox on Jun 3, 2016 19:45:28 GMT
Or we could have Belgiumed up limbs = slower movement speed and such?
|
|
|
Post by Immortal_Dragon on Jun 3, 2016 21:38:21 GMT
Or we could have Belgiumed up limbs = slower movement speed and such? Entirely possible, but normally when something gets so out of whack it stops functioning entirely. Now, with it turned on how is that going to look? It'd be a bit weird for those who don't want the blood and gore of having limbs torn off, but still want some level of immersion.
|
|
|
Post by mitobox on Jun 3, 2016 21:59:27 GMT
Don't forget wounds getting infected! That way, you can stalk the herd as the individual you bit a chunk out of slowly succumbs...
Or, you got hit in the leg with a thagomizer and probably need to use the suicide button. Like an alien Big Al or something.
(A herding herbivore is screwed because the herd will move on without it, leaving it vulnerable. A pack carnivore doesn't have it so bad, unless they practice cannibalism. Something solitary can just hold out in a cave or something for an in-game month or so.)
|
|
|
Post by Immortal_Dragon on Jun 3, 2016 22:08:58 GMT
Don't forget wounds getting infected! That way, you can stalk the herd as the individual you bit a chunk out of slowly succumbs... Or, you got hit in the leg with a thagomizer and probably need to use the suicide button. Like an alien Big Al or something. (A herding herbivore is screwed because the herd will move on without it, leaving it vulnerable. A pack carnivore doesn't have it so bad, unless they practice cannibalism. Something solitary can just hold out in a cave or something for an in-game month or so.)Unless of course you're not some big alpha predator that can still be dangerous when wounded. Otherwise you're probably going to have scavengers just waiting around the entrance of your hidey hole.
|
|
|
Post by Narotiza on Jun 3, 2016 23:12:47 GMT
Having the limb go limp doesn't seem that bad. It's certainly much less gruesome than it being torn off and gore flying everywhere and stuff. In 'no-blood mode,' could dismembered limbs just fall off, with no gore, without being too gruesome? There could be a small stump where the limb used to be on the organism.
EDIT: I'd definitely like to see a feature like this in the game, as long as there'll be a way to tone down the gore, of course. I imagine limb loss would be considered in fitness calculations, too: a creature with super weak legs that break when it tries to walk won't be able to survive for very long.
|
|
|
Post by Atrox on Jun 3, 2016 23:25:14 GMT
Oh yeah! No blood just a stump!
|
|
|
Post by mx on Jun 4, 2016 2:04:14 GMT
Surely when you create your organism, you would tag the limb as a limb. The limb could take damage separately and thus when it's health bar runs out, it is dismembered. I just had a gruesome image of your organism, just dragging itself along with severed or broken limbs. That's made me think of something else. Some players don't want gruesome gameplay and so they can turn off blood and organs and such. What would the alternative to this system be though? I would quite like to see it in the game though. You defiantly have a good point about gruesome.. i'm having a hard time imagining a realistic predator-prey relationships that aren't, in that how you sustain the damage would be just as horrifying as the damage itself (being eaten is not pretty).. I guess any idea would have to be a compromise between realism and toned down gore. I guess what i'm worried about is thrive going for a spore-like RPG combat where you click the creature you want to attack and basically sit there waiting to see who hits 0hp first while you repetitively tap the 4 hotkeys that are assigned to your attack organs like a quick time event (Maybe its just a matter of taste but i find this hugely disengaging). To have the option to go in for a quick strike to cripple an enemy and then stalk them as they weaken would be very cool (especially for stealth predators that pounce on unsuspecting faster prey, as if they cant cripple them in that strike the prey can just run off with 80%hp and the stealth predator will never win). Also I think by tagging limbs and organs it would give another degree of realism in that if you are stabbed in the arm you can go on living but a stab through your heart and your going down, this would give an insensitive for developing defensive features over vital organs instead of just throwing them on say the tail for an overall armor class (Thinking of the defective female armor in a lot of RPGS). This system would also make it more realistic in that as a predator you wouldn't just have to worry about winning but winning without becoming majorly crippled and is a good way to stop predator populations exploding. Again i'm not programmer so i have no idea the processing power required for elements like these
|
|
|
Post by StealthStyleL on Jun 4, 2016 10:34:37 GMT
I entirely agree with tat, and I personally would love to see this system in the game. I'm just trying to think of ways this could be displayed in a manner suitable for people who turn off blood and gore. And I'm not sure there's a way to do that without toning down the realism, which I really don't want to happen.
|
|
|
Post by mx on Jun 4, 2016 12:41:52 GMT
Quick summary of discussion so far
Severed limbs/permanent damage wounds good and liked for a bunch of reasons by every commenter as of now BUT in that case there needs to be an option to be an option to turn down the gore
possible solutions to gore mentioned so far (from what is least gory to most gory IMO)
1. Option to turn off permanent damage all together (I've just added this now) 2. Limbs don't get severed only injured causing slower movement but not stopping it 3. Limb changes color and stops moving/functioning 4. limp limb, limb graphic doesn't change it just stops functioning and goes floppy 5. Stumping the limb without any blood (like an auto cauterize?)
all of which have varying degrees of immersion breaking.
Now to think of any better options to keep immersion for players that don't want gore for the devs if they impliment it Or any other thoughts i guess
|
|
|
Post by timetraveler22 on Jun 4, 2016 12:55:42 GMT
Quick summary of discussion so far
Severed limbs/permanent damage wounds good and liked for a bunch of reasons by every commenter as of now BUT in that case there needs to be an option to be an option to turn down the gore possible solutions to gore mentioned so far (from what is least gory to most gory IMO) 1. Option to turn off permanent damage all together (I've just added this now) 2. Limbs don't get severed only injured causing slower movement but not stopping it 3. Limb changes color and stops moving/functioning 4. limp limb, limb graphic doesn't change it just stops functioning and goes floppy 5. Stumping the limb without any blood (like an auto cauterize?) all of which have varying degrees of immersion breaking. Now to think of any better options to keep immersion for players that don't want gore for the devs if they impliment it Or any other thoughts i guess Looks pretty good to me. But we've got a long ways to implement this though.
|
|
|
Post by StealthStyleL on Jun 4, 2016 13:39:36 GMT
Thinking of the solutions so far put forward, I feel the best non-gore version would be either to not have different damage for specific limbs and just have the damage simulated as a whole, with separate injuries not really shown. This isn't as cool, but many games have this format and it probably wouldn't ruin the experience for anyone. However, if we have the separate limb damage for gore players, then is it viable to have two such different systems? Or am I making two much of that?
The other best option I think is just to have the limbs come off but without any gore, as in number 5. This is the more gory of the two, as the limbs come off, (I'm imagining a creature just dragging itself along with its hind legs missing,) but is cooler and more realistic. And I'm sure there are games for kids where the parts come off and that's not shocking to them, although I am quite tentative about this. Anyway, these are the best options we have so far, in my opinion.
|
|