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Post by lowry on Mar 7, 2016 0:44:48 GMT
How will other blood warmths compete? Will there be a prevailing, almost ruling blood warmth like the dinosaurs or megamammals? Will mass extinctions be the only way for this to shift? Meh? Mwa.
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Poisson
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Post by Poisson on Mar 7, 2016 1:56:55 GMT
Warm blooded organisms tend to dominate when the temperature of an environments is more subject to change. Cold blooded organisms tend to dominate when the temperature is very stable over long periods of time. Neither is immediately better without some sort of context.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 2:50:23 GMT
Warm blooded organisms tend to dominate when the temperature of an environments is more subject to change. Cold blooded organisms tend to dominate when the temperature is very stable over long periods of time. Neither is immediately better without some sort of context. Is there a middle? Nature has full of possibilities so is it possible? I have heard of species of mammals looking like actual reptiles.
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Poisson
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Post by Poisson on Mar 7, 2016 3:40:40 GMT
Not that I'm aware of, though I know that my biological knowledge is not too technical. Really, you either use the local area to warm yourself, or you don't.
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RoboTrannic
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Post by RoboTrannic on Mar 7, 2016 4:18:53 GMT
if global warming continues we will see a cold blooded dominated world because of the lack of cold tempertures
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Post by Longisquama on Mar 7, 2016 5:03:50 GMT
Warm blooded organisms tend to dominate when the temperature of an environments is more subject to change. Cold blooded organisms tend to dominate when the temperature is very stable over long periods of time. Neither is immediately better without some sort of context. Is there a middle? Nature has full of possibilities so is it possible? I have heard of species of mammals looking like actual reptiles. It is not that simple. First, there are some middle ranges. Koalas and anteater are not very endothermic (warm blooded) while varanids and crocodiles are more endothermic than other reptiles. Also, being endothermic offers more advantages apart from being able to life in a wide range of temperatures. If you want to fly, or you are very small, like an insect, or you have to be endothermic to being able to produce enough energy to fly. To have a big brain it is also better to be endothermic. If you want speed, you better be endothermic. If you are big enough, you will be generating heat just by your size, so real gigantic cold-blooded creatures are impossible. So, I would say all the ecological niches that we usually think of as "dominant" are always occupied by endothermic creatures. On the other hand, being ectothermic (cold-blooded) has other advantages. If your diet is poor ( koalas and anteaters) you can't have a high metabolism, so you better not be very endothermic. If you are in an environment with not that much food ( a desert) you can be without food for a longer time if you are ectothermic. And in any crisis with no temperature-change, is better to just don't need much being ectothermic.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 22:15:08 GMT
Is there a middle? Nature has full of possibilities so is it possible? I have heard of species of mammals looking like actual reptiles. It is not that simple. First, there are some middle ranges. Koalas and anteater are not very endothermic (warm blooded) while varanids and crocodiles are more endothermic than other reptiles. Also, being endothermic offers more advantages apart from being able to life in a wide range of temperatures. If you want to fly, or you are very small, like an insect, or you have to be endothermic to being able to produce enough energy to fly. To have a big brain it is also better to be endothermic. If you want speed, you better be endothermic. If you are big enough, you will be generating heat just by your size, so real gigantic cold-blooded creatures are impossible. So, I would say all the ecological niches that we usually think of as "dominant" are always occupied by endothermic creatures. On the other hand, being ectothermic (cold-blooded) has other advantages. If your diet is poor ( koalas and anteaters) you can't have a high metabolism, so you better not be very endothermic. If you are in an environment with not that much food ( a desert) you can be without food for a longer time if you are ectothermic. And in any crisis with no temperature-change, is better to just don't need much being ectothermic. Would that mean if dinosaurs didn't get killed they would start to be endothermic because they were populating a lot and getting bigger also the weather started changing.
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Poisson
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Post by Poisson on Mar 8, 2016 1:12:33 GMT
Dinosaurs were likely already warm blooded, given the ecological niches they filled.
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Post by TheCreator on Mar 8, 2016 1:39:11 GMT
Dinosaurs were likely already warm blooded, given the ecological niches they filled. Dinosaurs weren't warm blooded per se. The larger ones maintained their body temperature because of their volume to mass ratio, which reduced heat loss.
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Post by Longisquama on Mar 8, 2016 9:56:02 GMT
Dinosaurs were likely already warm blooded, given the ecological niches they filled. Dinosaurs weren't warm blooded per se. The larger ones maintained their body temperature because of their volume to mass ratio, which reduced heat loss. It is very probable that the first dinosaur had feathers, and feathers aren't very useful without endothermy.
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RoboTrannic
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Post by RoboTrannic on Mar 8, 2016 19:12:46 GMT
well theropods were definitely endothermic because they needed to hunt and there were a handfull of artic dinosaurs where tempertures were still extremly low so endothermic was a must in those regions.sauropods could stated out endothermic but became exothermic as they grew in size
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2016 22:38:27 GMT
well theropods were definitely endothermic because they needed to hunt and there were a handfull of artic dinosaurs where tempertures were still extremly low so endothermic was a must in those regions.sauropods could stated out endothermic but became exothermic as they grew in size But then again most dinosaurs were cold blooded...
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Post by RoboTrannic on Mar 9, 2016 2:31:19 GMT
earth was not the hot bucket as they say back in Mesozoic times in fact famous creatures like trex and pachyrhinosaur lived in fairly cold places with yearly winter snowfall.as for most dinosaurs being cold blooded is a myth.the ony dinosaurs i can see being cold blooded were sauropods to prevent themselfs from being cooked from the inside (which is why mammals never get any bigger then that massive rhino thing
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Poisson
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Post by Poisson on Mar 9, 2016 2:40:55 GMT
earth was not the hot bucket as they say back in Mesozoic times in fact famous creatures like trex and pachyrhinosaur lived in fairly cold places with yearly winter snowfall.as for most dinosaurs being cold blooded is a myth.the ony dinosaurs i can see being cold blooded were sauropods to prevent themselfs from being cooked from the inside (which is why mammals never get any bigger then that massive rhino thing Other than whales, but only because the ocean saps warmth far more quickly than air, and so they can still exist in equilibrium.
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Post by Aquos on Mar 9, 2016 11:57:58 GMT
well just to join into this discusion buut .... we just don't know for sure if dino's where wharmth or cold blooded or something in between though the leading theory is that mostly if not all dino's whee warmth blooded where quite sure that theropods where warmth blooded (given their feathers) it is also really likely tat sauropods where warmth blooded (for the same reasons everyone already mentioned) but we have no idea about ornthisians (sorry if i buttered that also is that how you call them english ? i don't know) since however we do know for a fact that some of them had atlas photo-feathers we don't know about mostly of them soo yeah that's all i have to say
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 22:35:02 GMT
earth was not the hot bucket as they say back in Mesozoic times in fact famous creatures like trex and pachyrhinosaur lived in fairly cold places with yearly winter snowfall.as for most dinosaurs being cold blooded is a myth.the ony dinosaurs i can see being cold blooded were sauropods to prevent themselfs from being cooked from the inside (which is why mammals never get any bigger then that massive rhino thing Oh ok then... I always thought dinosaurs were cold blooded for some reason :/
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Post by TheCreator on Mar 9, 2016 22:41:38 GMT
earth was not the hot bucket as they say back in Mesozoic times in fact famous creatures like trex and pachyrhinosaur lived in fairly cold places with yearly winter snowfall.as for most dinosaurs being cold blooded is a myth.the ony dinosaurs i can see being cold blooded were sauropods to prevent themselfs from being cooked from the inside (which is why mammals never get any bigger then that massive rhino thing Oh ok then... I always thought dinosaurs were cold blooded for some reason :/ Dinosaurs lived for a really long time period, many millions of years. It honestly depends on when you start looking at them. The first dinosaur were likely cold-blooded.
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Post by Longisquama on Mar 10, 2016 1:18:12 GMT
Oh ok then... I always thought dinosaurs were cold blooded for some reason :/ Dinosaurs lived for a really long time period, many millions of years. It honestly depends on when you start looking at them. The first dinosaur were likely cold-blooded. No, the first one was likely warm-blooded. There are dinosaurs both saurischians and ornithischians with protofeathers, which are of no use without endothermy. Furthermore, the closest relatives to dinosaurs, pterosaurs, were covered in hair-like structures, probably evolved from the same tegument as the feathers of dinosaurs. And pterosaurs were probably warm-blooded, both because of the tegument and because they were able to fly, which spends a lot of energy, which requires endothermy. So, the first dinosaur probably had feathers (or something similar) and was endothermic.
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RoboTrannic
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Post by RoboTrannic on Mar 10, 2016 2:56:51 GMT
just to remind you feathers evolved long before the dinosaurs in LIZARDS such as longqsquama (rings a bell dosnt it) back then they were alot like fur with a few exceptions
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Post by Longisquama on Mar 10, 2016 5:26:53 GMT
just to remind you feathers evolved long before the dinosaurs in LIZARDS such as longqsquama (rings a bell dosnt it) back then they were alot like fur with a few exceptions Nobody knows much about longisquama, although the only thing preserved that could be interpreted as feathers are not at all like fur. And I wouldn't say 3.6 million years is "long before" (longisquama 235 MYA, eoraptor 231.4 MYA) It is possible that is a close relative to dinosaurs, and that is the reason it has those weird structures in its back, it is possible it is a true lizard and they evolved independently. As interesting and weird as it is, longisquama remains are not good enough to being able to help scientists discover the origin of feathers or endothermy. In any case, only dinosaurs tegument are considered feathers, even pterosaurs ones are different enough that they have their own name: pycnofibres. Their closest common ancestor probably had integument too, although it is probable it is more primitive than both protofeathers and pycnofibres. It is also possible that it was endothermic and the function of the integument was insulate it. Longisquama could have evolved from the same common ancestor, or be related to it.
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