|
|
Post by Captain McDerp on Jan 6, 2016 16:51:33 GMT
Hey, my name is Mcderp and I have something to adress that has been quite an issue for me. At least, since a while. I understand everybody wants this game to be the best it can be, and I am sure most of us are aware of the sheer scale of this game and how much of a great, ambitious project it is. But for some reason I feel it might go for something a bit too ambitious. Maybe even more than neccesary. I found thrive somewhere in 2011 and actively started following/lurking it around mid-2012, and since then I have seen a trend in this project. It somehow seems to have a cycle where: Stuff happens > activity increases > more people get drawn towards the project > promises are made and discussion/work happens > the game suddenly gets drowned in (semi-)irrelevant concepts, protoypes, ideas and people get ahead of themselves. And then... nothing. Absolutely nothing, and then this whole cycle starts all over again. All the while more and more concepts and ideas are getting incorporated into the core design of the game. Sometimes I see a lot of really awesome work and theorizing being done on something that maybe shouldn't be that important to begin with, an example I found was the sheer amount of work being done on simulating plate tectonics in the game, something the player probably doesn't even notice while playing the actual game. When I first saw this game, it was a game. These days; it seems to become more and more of a playable simulation than an actual game. Something the original post-Evolutions! idea of Thrive wasn't going for. What I'm trying to say to fans, devs and newbies is: Please don't get ahead of yourselves and just take one thing at a time, nobody can design a microbe stage while he is busy designing algorithms for the other stages. But don't get me wrong, I love this project and the devs put a lot of valuable spare time and effort into creating it. I don't dislike the way you work or where your priorities are, I just think a few things are worth questioning. I hope my concerns are seen as legitimate by you guys. Thanks for reading.  |
|
|
|
Post by tjwhale on Jan 6, 2016 20:25:13 GMT
It's an interesting point you make. I'm glad you care enough about the game to want it to go forwards. You've been with the project longer than me and it's interesting to hear your views on it.
It was about six weeks ago that I first had the thought "we're not that far from finishing the microbe stage". Which was a pretty cool moment. Now I don't know how long it's going to take but I think having that goal in sight will inspire people and keep the project moving. The team is pretty strong at the moment and that's nice.
Thrive is definitely a game. I think it's going to be closest to Kerbal Space Program in terms of vibe. The game is wrestling with the laws of physics and chemistry. The fun will be one of the last things to come but I will assure you that the microbe stage will be fun. I for one have no interest in this project if it's not going to be a fun and engaging game that stands on it's own.
That said I really like the simulations and broader aspects of it too. One thing to remember is a lot of the work is front loaded. So the CPA system will work until the society stage. The planetary simulations will work all the way through the game to the space stage. That's why it's worth putting the effort in, because if those systems are good then everything else that sits on them will be interesting too.
Also, and this is about the deeper philosophy that is emerging at the moment, Kerbal is amazing because it puts kids and adults on the same level. It's amazing to see a system that is of interest to Nasa employees and random teenagers, I know of few other things like that. Seregon mentioned this first and I think it's such a good point, I don't think we've seen what it will become yet. In the end Thrive could end up as a movement to connect scientists to everyone else in society, it could turn into an amazing tool for scientific communication. Because the models aren't dumbed down, they're the kind of thing serious people are interested in, but they sit under the game layer so anyone can play with them. I think that's a really awesome thing that we've only just begun to explore and I think it could turn into something really quite special.
That's all a bit rambling but I think it's safe to say the future is bright for Thrive and yes, it's about making a fun game and yes, it's about making some crazy deep scientific simulations and doing both those things at the same time is a strength rather than a distraction.
Also I really like these community forums because I think you people are a great for Thrive, having people who aren't involved in actively building stuff throwing ideas around and commenting on the development is really helpful. So thanks for the comment.
Hope that's helpful.
|
|
|
|
Post by StealthStyleL on Jan 6, 2016 21:59:11 GMT
I also want to add on a couple of points to this.
Firstly, if there is a cycle of activity then activity then it is better that these algorithms and things are tested now while their is activity on Thrive's development.
Also, although you may have seen this pattern in the past, I think it is different now. We have a functioning microbe stage that, as tjwhale says, is not to far off being finished. I think that now their is this progress and people can see that we are on the way to making a game I think that inactivity will be far less.
Oh, and on things like tectonic plates the player may not notice them but they will change and effect gameplay behind the scenes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captain McDerp on Jan 7, 2016 15:35:09 GMT
Hey, thanks for replying, really informative. You are right about this project being "front loaded". I just realised for the game to work, everything must interact smoothly between different stages. It cannot be like Spore, where everything is separated and randomised. Thanks for clearing things up. I guess I'm still pretty salty about that microbe stage I was promised to be complete in december 2013.  Also just wanna point out that the thing about the plate tectonics was especially bothering me, unless it's integral to the way terrain is generated I wouldn't know why you would want to add it. It could only be used in the stages where you evolve over millions of years. But in these stages you are confined to a small area and the organism view. So I don't really understand why you would want to add it. cheers |
|
|
|
Post by NickTheNick on Jan 7, 2016 19:57:56 GMT
To answer the plate tectonics question, it's for several reasons that we are adding it.
In the first place, why have the terrain change over time? Because the changing of the physical environment over millions of years was a big driving force behind evolution. That will result in a more realistic simulation of evolution in Thrive.
Why use a specific algorithm to calculate how the terrain should change over time? Because random changes in terrain would completely break balance and immersion. You could start on a mountain top and next generation you're underwater.
To create gradual, sensible, and realistic evolution of the physical landscape over time, we need to simulate what we know about plate tectonics.
Plus, even though plate tectonics is not relevant to what's in the game right now, if someone wants to work on it, they're free to do so. That's the beauty of the project. It brings together so many different genres and game experiences into one game that it can attract people to work on all the different elements. We can't force someone not to work on what they want to work on, that's what motivates them to stick with the project.
However, I understand your frustration, because sometimes it might feel like the Microbe Stage's development is stalled because of parallel work on other stages, and we do try to encourage each other to focus on the Microbe Stage where possible, but as I said it's a voluntary project, so everyone is free to work on what they want to. I also switch between helping with Microbe Stage to doing work on other stages as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by 0wolfmoon0 on Feb 1, 2016 15:22:19 GMT
I'm so glad I read this. I have much more faith in the project now.
|
|
