Poisson
Multicellular
Semi-active
Posts: 16
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 1:39:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by Poisson on Mar 15, 2016 1:39:09 GMT
How do you prevent twisting of skin with a biological wheel, unless it is not attached to the body? If it is not attached to the body, how is it formed and maintained? If it is not maintained, how does the organism's body know to replace it?
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 1:44:57 GMT
Post by Atrox on Mar 15, 2016 1:44:57 GMT
My explanation: The wheel is connected to the body all throughout the organism's infancy, taking in nutrients and growing. Once the organism reaches maturity, the wheel undergoes controlled apoptosis, separating the wheel from the rest of the body. It's covered in a thick layer of keratin to protect it throughout it's lifetime. However if even the keratin fails in protecting the wheel, the organism is basically done for since I haven't really thought of a way to repair damaged wheels.
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 2:07:26 GMT
Post by Atrox on Mar 15, 2016 2:07:26 GMT
So, is the ball in the first organism actually tethered to the rest of the body? Or can the main body be removed from the ball. From what I understand you have a spherical object underneath the main body that is rotated using undulating muscles below the organism? However you also stated that the ball is a large and toughened stomach? I like it, but the only issue I see with that is if the ball is indeed a large and toughened stomach, wouldn't it still be connected to the main body? How would it rotate freely? It seems as though after spinning enough, it'll twist up the digestive tract after a while, possibly snapping it. And the second smaller organism is a fish with a large paddle wheel in the center of it yes? (Power has been out for the past 4 hours) by "toughened stomach" I meant that it would be a large bladder object. In my second drawing it would have a hole running through it for a muscle or a bone axle. The small one is indeed a fish like organism that has a central paddle wheel. Kinda like this?
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veyraa
Multicellular
Posts: 30
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 2:12:21 GMT
Post by veyraa on Mar 15, 2016 2:12:21 GMT
(Power has been out for the past 4 hours) by "toughened stomach" I meant that it would be a large bladder object. In my second drawing it would have a hole running through it for a muscle or a bone axle. The small one is indeed a fish like organism that has a central paddle wheel. Kinda like this? Aye, exactly so.
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The_Wayward_Admiral
Spacefaring
The_Real_Slim_Shady
Atrox drew this awesome image of the Keldori!
Posts: 1,011
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 2:25:58 GMT
Post by The_Wayward_Admiral on Mar 15, 2016 2:25:58 GMT
The controlled apoptosis could leave a small subset of tissue one cell thick.
If the tissue were properly reinforced (desmosomes and hemidesmosomes all up in this biz), and assuming it could take in enough oxygen directly from the air, it could continuously excrete a layer of keratin, assuming that it could organize it well enough to allow passage of air. Sugar is a hard bargain, so I guess they'd have to grab sustenance from whatever surface they passed over.
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 3:12:48 GMT
Post by Atrox on Mar 15, 2016 3:12:48 GMT
The controlled apoptosis could leave a small subset of tissue one cell thick. If the tissue were properly reinforced (desmosomes and hemidesmosomes all up in this biz), and assuming it could take in enough oxygen directly from the air, it could continuously excrete a layer of keratin, assuming that it could organize it well enough to allow passage of air. Sugar is a hard bargain, so I guess they'd have to grab sustenance from whatever surface they passed over. Could you restate that in laymen's terms please and thank you? Wayward, you know how the wheel would be hollow for the blood power ones right? What if there was an inner lining of spongy tissue that absorbed the blood that pools at the bottom and spread it to the rest of the wheel before being sent to the rest of the body? Plausible? Yay or nay
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The_Wayward_Admiral
Spacefaring
The_Real_Slim_Shady
Atrox drew this awesome image of the Keldori!
Posts: 1,011
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 3:21:38 GMT
Post by The_Wayward_Admiral on Mar 15, 2016 3:21:38 GMT
Atrox , my apologies. I got excited and it's been awhile since I spouted jargon. Basically, if a single layer of cells were left, and these cells were strongly connected to each other, they could lay down a protective coating for the wheel continuously if they had the proper support. With the original blood capture wheel that got discussed that system would work since the blood flowed in one end and out the other, but it would require revamping of the blood turbine idea. Which is not to say that it couldn't work with the turbine but it would need sketching on a level i cannot do.
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 3:23:31 GMT
Post by Atrox on Mar 15, 2016 3:23:31 GMT
It's alright The_Wayward_Admiral Even with support, they'd have a breaking point, no? And back to the drawing board :/
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The_Wayward_Admiral
Spacefaring
The_Real_Slim_Shady
Atrox drew this awesome image of the Keldori!
Posts: 1,011
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Post by The_Wayward_Admiral on Mar 15, 2016 3:27:16 GMT
Sadly even mechanical wheels have a breaking point T.T, and as Doctor Who has taught me, everything has its time and everything dies (it's seriously an uplifting show, but it has depressing quotes).
But yes. Past a certain point it's unrealistic to expect them to divide fast enough to stave off death, then the wheel is exposed and it's game over for the unfortunate animal using it.
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veyraa
Multicellular
Posts: 30
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 6:21:52 GMT
Post by veyraa on Mar 15, 2016 6:21:52 GMT
And then I thought up the idea of built in roller-skates... A bone like ball that is attached by a bone or fibrous axle. You lot can probably fill in the rest. I am off to ponder whether or not to set forth a petition to the High Council... Ah, it will be rejected, so I will merely make a thread about it at some point... Methinks.
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Post by tammio on Mar 15, 2016 19:03:46 GMT
Well... so baisicly your latest Wheel-Creature is more or less a Slug with a Wheel in the middle ist it? So why not macke it a hollow sphere, made from (insert hard stuff). So the Ball is not conected via an axle, but instead not directly attached to the body directely at all? Instead it is "suspended" in a Hollow in the slugs middle, and covered to 70% by tough skin? Think of a ball point pen. The sphere is smaller than the opening it would have to fit through to get lost. Inside the "sphere cavity" the creature would secrete some sort of natural oil to smoothen things up and reduce the spheres friction to its own body. Locomotion would be achieved by the creature pushing itself forwards using its tail. Baisicly it would be a self steering ballpoint pen writing messages for passing extraterestrials
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 19:12:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by Atrox on Mar 15, 2016 19:12:12 GMT
I never thought of a ball point pen. I'd thought to use a secreted lubricant for lessened friction but a ballpoint pen structure. Wow I feel dumb. And here I am drawing axles on spheres when the solution was so simple. >_>
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 19:15:48 GMT
Post by tammio on Mar 15, 2016 19:15:48 GMT
Maybee the sphere could be made of the smae composites as an eggshell? Eggshells are realy quiite hard if you consider how thin they are. Their main weakness isn't that they are Hard, but lack elasticity wich makes them shatter upon impact. But I asume they`re "Cheaper" biologicaly speaking, than Bone structures and can maybee even replaced when broken. So the Ballpoint-Slug finds a secure nest, destroys its own sphere and "hatches" a new one. Why the Sphere could actualy be a sort of Egg!
Okay quick edit: The Egg idea made me laugh quite a lot. Its like a Kangaroo just with an egg in its "bag".
Quick edit 2: Check spelling EFORE posting
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 19:18:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by Atrox on Mar 15, 2016 19:18:12 GMT
I did find a wheeled organism concept on the internet where their wheels were in fact unfertilized eggs.
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Post by tammio on Mar 15, 2016 19:21:17 GMT
Nah maybee they're not unfertilised, but being carried arround for safety reasons, so the new generation has a bigger egg and can emerge nearly grown up already. Instead of hatching their Eggs in a static nest they carry theit brood arround for a roadtrip.
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 19:22:13 GMT
Post by Atrox on Mar 15, 2016 19:22:13 GMT
I'm not so sure rolling around on the egg that is carrying your unborn child is the best idea lmao
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Post by tammio on Mar 15, 2016 19:33:56 GMT
Hm yea, you do have a point. But then... it wouldn't go THAT fast, so the baby wouldn't be subjected to SO high G-forces. And since its baisicly a slug, there are few bones to be broken. AND maybe the species has become DEPENDENT on using their eggs as a transportation form. So because due to using them as weels they have adapted (natural selection, you might have heard of it ;D) to lay Eggs with extra thick protective coating. So in order for the baby to hatch the coating has to be weakened until it can be broken open from the inside. You know like in His Dark Materials were the Tree Seeds have become dependent on those animals who use them as wheels to use them until they break open
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Post by Atrox on Mar 15, 2016 19:37:01 GMT
It's not so much about the G-forces. The biggest issue would be if something happens to the egg before the baby is fully developed, it can lead the baby to die. I feel like it'd still make a bit more sense for the ball to be an unfertilized egg. Little to no risk of anything happening to the baby.
If it is a fertilized egg I suggest that the ball simply fall out. It pushes its way through the opening.
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Post by tammio on Mar 15, 2016 19:48:46 GMT
Yes but what would (endange the Egg)? So the creatures would live in herds in a sort of savanah or great, rolling plane. Think of a sort of Ukraine or Monglólia like place. Few mountains, few rocks, lots of soft (but not too soft) turf to roll over, lots of high gras to hide in. They wouldn't be able to gain high speeds, but they could move continuously. And then you have the thick shell to protect the egg. Possibly the lubricant could also be used to coat the egg continuously in new layers of shell, untill the time for hatching has arrived.
I mean just imagine Nomad Warriors riding Ballpoint sluggs! They would call their chief Jingis-Roll and make all other tribes fear the distand thundering of Eggs rolling over the Hills!
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Wheels
Mar 15, 2016 19:52:23 GMT
Post by Atrox on Mar 15, 2016 19:52:23 GMT
I suppose you have a point there
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